On 19 Oct 2012, at 12:26, Alberto G. Corona wrote:

A few discoveries of evolutionary psichology may help. According with EP the mind is composed of many functional modules, each one for a different purpose. many of them are specific of each specie. Each of these modules is the result of the computation of certain areas of the brain. A functional module in the mind has´nt to be an area of the brain. Because the model of the mid in EP assumes comp, and assumes an specific, testable model for mind-brain design (natural selection) it is well suited for issues like this.

Severe autists lack a module called "theory of mind" . this module make you compute the mental states of other people. It gather information about their gestures, acts etc. It makes people interesting object to care about. Autists can learn rationally about the fact that other humans are like him, they can learn to take care of them. But they are not naturally interested in people. They dont care about if you have a mind, because they do not know what means a mind in another being. they just experience their own. For them, yuou are robot that they do not understand.

That is possible, but I would say that "empathy", your module of a "theory of mind" is already present for all universal machine knowing that they are universal. Autist, in your theory, would be a L¨bian entity with some defect in that module, with respect to its local representation/body. Possible.




We ask ourselves about the existence of the mind in others because we have a innate capacity for perceiving and feeling the mind in other. However, a robot without human gestures, without human reactions would not excite our theory of mind module, and we would not have the intuitive perception of a mind in that cold thing.

However this has nothing to do with the real thing.The theory of mind module evolved because it was very important for social life. But this is compatible with a reality in with each one of us live in an universe of zombies (some of them with postdoc in philosophy, church pastors etc) where we have the only soul. Of course I dont belive that. I have the "normal" belief. But this is one of the most deep and most widespread beliefs, because it is innate and you must fight against it to drop it out. This belief save you from a paralizing solipsism. That´s one of the reasons why I say "I believe, therefore I can act"

I follow you well. I agree. Comp is the inverse of solipsim, as it attributes a soul to a larger class of entity than usually thought: machines, and even relative numbers in arithmetic.

Bruno






2012/10/17 Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net>
Hi Bruno Marchal

Sorry, I lost the thread on the doctor, and don't know what Craig believes about the p-zombie.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie

"A philosophical zombie or p-zombie in the philosophy of mind and perception is a hypothetical being that is indistinguishable from a normal human being except in that it lacks conscious experience, qualia, or sentience.[1] When a zombie is poked with a sharp object, for example, it does not feel any pain though it behaves exactly as if it does feel pain (it may say "ouch" and recoil from the stimulus, or tell us that it is in intense pain)."

My guess is that this is the solipsism issue, to which I would say that if it has no mind, it cannot converse with you, which would be a test for solipsism,-- which I just now found in typing the first part of this sentence.


Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
10/17/2012
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen


----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Bruno Marchal
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-10-17, 08:57:36
Subject: Re: Is consciousness just an emergent property of overlycomplexcomputations ?




On 16 Oct 2012, at 15:33, Stephen P. King wrote:


On 10/16/2012 9:20 AM, Roger Clough wrote:

Hi Stephen P. King

Thanks. My mistake was to say that P's position is that
consciousness, arises at (or above ?)
the level of noncomputability.  He just seems to
say that intuiton does. But that just seems
to be a conjecture of his.


ugh, rclo...@verizon.net
10/16/2012
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen


Hi Roger,

IMHO, computability can only capture at most a "simulation" of the content of consciousness, but we can deduce a lot from that ...



So you do say "no" to the doctor? And you do follow Craig on the existence of p-zombie?


Bruno




http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/

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