Hi Bruno Marchal 

In that definition of a p-zombie below, it says that 
a p-zombie cannot experience qualia, and qualia
are what the senses tell you. The mind then transforms
what is sensed into a sensation. The sense of red
is what the body gives you, the sensation of red 
is what the mind transforms that into. Our mind
also can recall past sensations of red to compare
it with and give it a name "red", which a real
person can identify as eg a red traffic light
and stop. A zombie would not stop (I am not allowing
the fact that red and green lights are in different
positions). 
That would be a test of zombieness.

Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 
10/20/2012 
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen 

----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: Bruno Marchal 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-10-19, 03:47:51 
Subject: Re: A test for solipsism 

On 17 Oct 2012, at 19:12, Roger Clough wrote: 
> Hi Bruno Marchal 
> 
> Sorry, I lost the thread on the doctor, and don't know what Craig 
> believes about the p-zombie. 
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie 
> 
> "A philosophical zombie or p-zombie in the philosophy of mind and 
> perception is a hypothetical being 
> that is indistinguishable from a normal human being except in that 
> it lacks conscious experience, qualia, or sentience.[1] When a 
> zombie is poked with a sharp object, for example, it does not feel 
> any pain though it behaves 
> exactly as if it does feel pain (it may say "ouch" and recoil from 
> the stimulus, or tell us that it is in intense pain)." 
> 
> My guess is that this is the solipsism issue, to which I would say 
> that if it has no mind, it cannot converse with you, 
> which would be a test for solipsism,-- which I just now found in 
> typing the first part of this sentence. 
Solipsism makes everyone zombie except you. 
But in some context some people might conceive that zombie exists, 
without making everyone zombie. Craig believes that computers, if they 
might behave like conscious individuals would be a zombie, but he is 
no solipsist. 
There is no test for solipsism, nor for zombieness. BY definition, 
almost. A zombie behaves exactly like a human being. There is no 3p 
features that you could use at all to make a direct test. Now a theory 
which admits zombie, can have other features which might be testable, 
and so some indirect test are logically conceivable, relatively to 
some theory. 
Bruno 



> 
> 
> Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 
> 10/17/2012 
> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen 
> 
> 
> ----- Receiving the following content ----- 
> From: Bruno Marchal 
> Receiver: everything-list 
> Time: 2012-10-17, 08:57:36 
> Subject: Re: Is consciousness just an emergent property of 
> overlycomplexcomputations ? 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 16 Oct 2012, at 15:33, Stephen P. King wrote: 
> 
> 
> On 10/16/2012 9:20 AM, Roger Clough wrote: 
> 
> Hi Stephen P. King 
> 
> Thanks. My mistake was to say that P's position is that 
> consciousness, arises at (or above ?) 
> the level of noncomputability. He just seems to 
> say that intuiton does. But that just seems 
> to be a conjecture of his. 
> 
> 
> ugh, rclo...@verizon.net 
> 10/16/2012 
> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen 
> 
> 
> Hi Roger, 
> 
> IMHO, computability can only capture at most a "simulation" of the 
> content of consciousness, but we can deduce a lot from that ... 
> 
> 
> 
> So you do say "no" to the doctor? And you do follow Craig on the 
> existence of p-zombie? 
> 
> 
> Bruno 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ 
> 
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http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ 

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