On 10/20/2012 10:11 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:


On 20 Oct 2012, at 12:38, Roger Clough wrote:

Hi Bruno Marchal

In that definition of a p-zombie below, it says that
a p-zombie cannot experience qualia, and qualia
are what the senses tell you.

Yes. Qualia are the subjective 1p view, sometimes brought by percepts, and supposed to be treated by the brain.
And yes a zombie as no qualia, as a qualia needs consciousness.






The mind then transforms
what is sensed into a sensation. The sense of red
is what the body gives you, the sensation of red
is what the mind transforms that into. Our mind
also can recall past sensations of red to compare
it with and give it a name "red", which a real
person can identify as eg a red traffic light
and stop. A zombie would not stop


No, a zombie will stop at the red light. By definition it behaves like a human, or like a conscious entity. By definition, if you marry a zombie, your will never been aware of that, your whole life.


(I am not allowing
the fact that red and green lights are in different
positions).
That would be a test of zombieness.

There exists already detector of colors, smells, capable of doing finer discrimination than human.
I have heard about a machine testing old wine better than human experts.

Machines evolve quickly. That is why the non-comp people are confronted with the idea that zombie might be logically possible for them.

Bruno

Hi Bruno and Roger,

What would distinguish, for an external observer, a p-zombie from a a person that does not see the world external to it as anything other than an internal panorama with which it cannot interact?

--
Onward!

Stephen

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