On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 11:04 AM, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com
On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 6:25 PM, Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com
> I think you are missing something. It is a problem that I noticed
watching the movie "The Prestige"
In my opinion "The Prestige" is the best movie made in the last 10 years,
is one of those rare instances where the movie was better than the book.
the movie back in 1996 I wrote a short scenario that had somewhat similar
this is part of it:
" About a year ago I started building a matter duplicating machine. It
the position and velocity of every atom in a human being to the limit
Heisenberg's law. It then used this information to construct a copy and it
all in a fraction of a second and without harming the original in any way.
be surprised that I was able to build such a complicated machine, but you
be if you knew how good I am with my hands. The birdhouse I made is simply
and I have all the latest tools from Sears.
I was a little nervous but I decided to test the machine by duplicating
The day before yesterday I walked into the chamber, it filled with smoke
those radio shack transformers) there was a flash of light, and then 3 feet
left was a man who looked exactly like me. It was at that instant that the
realization of the terrible thing I did hit me. I yelled "This is
can only be one of me", my copy yelled exactly the same thing. I thought he
trying to mock me, so I reached for my 44 magnum that I always carry with
wonder why people think I'm strange) and pointed it at my double. I noted
alarm that the double also had a gun and he was pointing it at me. I shouted
don't have the guts to pull the trigger, but I do". Again he mimicked my
did so in perfect synchronization, this made me even more angry and I
trigger, he did too. My gun went off but due to a random quantum
gun jammed. I buried him in my back yard.
Now that my anger has cooled and I can think more clearly I've had some
guilt about killing a living creature, but that's not what really torments
do I know I'm not the copy? I feel exactly the same as before, but would a
feel different? Actually there is a way to be certain, I have a video tape
entire experiment. My memory is that the copy first appeared 3 feet to my
(if I had arranged things so he appeared 3 feet in front of me face to face
would have been more symmetrical, like looking in a mirror), if the tape
original walking into the chamber and the copy materializing 3 feet to his
then I would know that I am the copy. But I'm afraid to look at the tape,
be? If I found out I was the copy what should I do? I suppose I should morn
death of John Clark, but how can I, I'm not dead. If I am the copy would
that I have no real past and my life is meaningless? Is it important, or
just burn the tape and forget all about it?"
Nice story. It reminds me of this little puzzle (I forgot where I heard it):
You will be placed into a room with an exact clone of yourself and you will be given a
gun. If you shoot your clone you can leave that room and everything will be fine.
Or, if you shoot yourself your clone will be allowed to leave the room and will be
given $1,000,000. What do you do? If you value the money and ascribe to certain
philosophical schools, the logical decision would be to shoot yourself rather than
shooting the clone.
> you probably believe there is some stream of thoughts/consciousness
I can't conceive of anyone disagreeing with that.
> You further believe that these thoughts and consciousness are
some activity of your brain.
> Unlike Craig, you believe that whatever horrible injury you suffered,
if every atom in your body were separated from every other atom, in
you could be put back together, and if the atoms are put back just
will be removed and alive and well, and conscious again.
> Further, you probably believe it doesn't matter if we even re-use the
atoms or not, since atoms of the same elements and isotopes are
> We could take apart your current atoms, then put you back together
atoms from a different pile and your consciousness would continue right
it left off (from before you were obliterated).
It would be as if a simulation of your brain were running on a VM, we
the VM, moved it to a different physical computer and then resumed it.
your perspective inside, there was no interruption, yet your physical
incarnation and location has changed.
> what happens to your consciousness when duplicated?
When what is duplicated? Adjectives, like consciousness or Jason Resch, do
duplicate in the same way that nouns, like brains, do. If I exactly
iPod playing loud music the iPod is duplicated but the adjective "loud" is
duplicated, but if I then change the loudness level on one of them but not
other then the two differentiate. In the same way If I exactly duplicate
you and a
cat as you consciously look at the cat then your body and brain are
the adjective describing what the brain is doing, consciousness, is not
duplicated; however if I then change one cat but not the other then the
experience and memories formed by observing the cat will be different and
of you will no longer be each other but both will be Jason Resch.
To clarify, I mean if the substrate of your consciousness is duplicated, then the
singular mind "John Clark" will have multiple manifestations. Destroying one of the
manifestations will not destroy John Clark so long as there is at least one surviving
manifestation. What numerous scientific theories suggest (Eternal Inflation, Many
Worlds, Mathematical Realism, String Theory Landscape to name a few) is that each of
us has an infinite number of manifestations, in whatever possible state we might enter.
Thus we are all immortal, survive everything, consciousness never ends, our states are
interlinked and can intersect, thus we reincarnate, we resurrect to afterlives in far
away places and different universes and realms, we also sometimes awaken and find
ourselves to be an omega point mind with the memories of 10^10^10 life times,
exploring all possibilities of reality and consciousness before jumping in to the next
life. Seeing the unity in two manifestations of the same minds leads to seeing unity
among all minds. Wait long enough and you will experience the lives of every person
you ever meet, and all the ones you haven't met too.