On 11/10/2012 10:02 PM, meekerdb wrote:
On 11/10/2012 5:44 PM, Russell Standish wrote:
On Sat, Nov 10, 2012 at 05:14:47PM -0800, meekerdb wrote:
On 11/10/2012 1:31 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
No problem. UDA shows the equivalent propositions: (MAT is weak
materialism: the doctrine that there is a primitive physical
COMP -> NOT MAT
MAT -> NOT COMP
NOT MAT or NOT COMP
I keep COMP as a working hypothesis, as I have no clue what really
MAT means or explains, and we don't find a contradiction, just a
weirdness close to quantum Everett.
But more accurately, we have not yet found a contradiction. There
may be a contradiction with empirical observation, but COMP has not
made many definite predictions that could be contradicted. That's
why I brought up the location of consciousness. Empirically
consciousness is associated with a center body (an essential point
of the duplication experiment), yet so far as I can see COMP would
predict that a consciousness should have no particular location and
not reason to be associated with a particular body.
I think the argument is that association with a body (or brain)
is required for intersubjectivity between minds. It is an
But how does the requirement for intersubjectivity follow from COMP?
Is it just an anthropic selection argument?
This is what I wish to know and understand as well! AFAIK, comp
seems to only define a single conscious mind! Bruno talks about
plurality but never shows how the plurality of numbers and their mutual
exclusive identities transfers onto a plurality of minds. It seems to me
that if we allow got Godel numbering schemes to code propositions then
we cause the uniqueness of number identity to become degenerate. For
example: 0123456789 can mean many things. It can be a particular number,
it can be a Godel code for some other number, it can be a string of
Personally, I think the association is required for self-awareness,
leading me to the conclusion that self-awareness (aka Loebianity) is
required for consciousness. I know that I disagree with Bruno on this
matter, who sees consciousness everywhere, but Loebianity more
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