Hi Roger,

I'm not trying to convince you to listen to 12-tone music, as it is even
misleading to talk about is as a unified whole => every composer that uses
these tools and their funky harmonic logic approaches them differently.

And composers have been doing this since in some form or the other since
16th century. It's "science" in its current atheist, political form that
was late with this kind of thinking. Also unifying this kind of musical
vision with more conjunct and decidable harmony has also been around
musically since the 16th and 17th century, if not earlier. So I shrug my
shoulders at the "novel scientific paradigms" of 20th and 21st century and
say: "meh.... not impressed if we can only build bombs and dirty energy
with it: just follow our lead and make it so that people can love and like
the fruits of that thinking and logics with a good conscience, without
making a mess. We've shown its possible in our domain for hundreds of
years."

Quantum Cowboy :)


On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 3:57 PM, Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net> wrote:

>  Hi Platonist Guitar Cowboy
>
> 12 tone music can be refreshing for a while but I soon get bored.
> On the other hand, Stravinksy and many others can do exciting
> things with dissonance. The Firebird Suite and the Rites of Spring
> enhance this marvellously with dance.
>
>
> [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] <rclo...@verizon.net]>
> 11/15/2012
> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen
>
>
> ----- Receiving the following content -----
> *From:* Platonist Guitar Cowboy <multiplecit...@gmail.com>
> *Receiver:* everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
> *Time:* 2012-11-14, 12:42:32
> *Subject:* Re: Re: Leibniz's pre-composed harmonic orchestral performance
>
>  Hi Roger,
>
> The definition of harmony you cite above is "entertainment biased",
> because: Virtually all music is dissonant as the vast majority of music
> includes more complex fundamental frequency ratios than unison and octave:
> anything more complex than 1:1, 2:1, 3:1 etc. is by strict definition
> already dissonant, leading to rational number ratios etc. Note this is true
> independently of "somewhat muddled and defective senses".
>
> But there's not a large target market for such music: it would be fun to
> compose music with little dissonance and just Octaves all day... but they
> already do a version of this with New Age, meditation music etc. but they
> still need more than the octave, to not bore the listeners to death with
> static sine wave @ 440hz. But you can't mix 12-tone music with more
> traditional systems of harmony, unless you build larger musical contexts,
> because conjunction, transition, simultaneity, harmony, dissonance are
> defined very differently. Like instead of "either this chord or that chord
> for this genre in this musical context" in more traditional harmony, you
> get "this chord AND that chord" in 12-tone music; with either chord on its
> own being "false" in most 12-tone context.
>
> Mark
>
> On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 4:14 PM, Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi Russell Standish
>>
>>
>> I left out the part that the perfect harmony is
>> only possible in Platonia, but when performed
>> and/or listened to on earth by people with
>> somehat muddled or defective senses (us),
>> will contain distortions and dissonances.
>>
>>
>> Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
>> 11/9/2012
>> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen
>>
>>
>> ----- Receiving the following content -----
>> From: Russell Standish
>> Receiver: everything-list
>> Time: 2012-11-08, 19:23:50
>> Subject: Re: Leibniz's pre-composed harmonic orchestral performance
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 08, 2012 at 05:59:15AM -0500, Roger Clough wrote:
>> > Hi Russell Standish
>> >
>> > Yes, the orchestra with the supreme monad as
>> > composer/conductor playing a pleasing orchestra
>> > composition (not 12-tone !) that he dug up out of his
>> > a priori files works fine.
>>
>> That is what is incompatible with QM. Sorry...
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile)
>> Principal, High Performance Coders
>> Visiting Professor of Mathematics hpco...@hpcoders.com.au
>> University of New South Wales http://www.hpcoders.com.au
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
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