Hi Craig Weinberg 

I agree with what you say, but there's no need to humanize
the coffee filters nor humanize intelligence or consciousness.
I'm not talking here about IQ. My point (speaking here as Leibniz)  is that 
nature down to the lowliest beings (a grain of sand) has intelligence 
of some sort. Nature is alive, and life is intelligence.   


[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
11/16/2012 
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen

----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: Craig Weinberg 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-11-15, 13:53:48
Subject: Re: Re: My embarassing misunderstanding of the intelligence ofcomputers




On Thursday, November 15, 2012 9:42:25 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote:
Hi Craig Weinberg 

Everything has at least some intelligence or consciousness, according to 
Leibniz's metaphysics,
even rocks.  But these "bare naked monads" are essentially in deep, drugged  
sleep and darkness,
or at best drunk. Leibniz called such a state the unconscious way before Freud 
and Jung.

I believe that there is an experience on the micro-level of what the coffee 
filter is made of - molecules held together as fibers maybe, bit I don't think 
that it knows or cares about filtering. It's like if you write the letters A 
and B on a piece of paper - I think there is an experience there on the 
molecular level, of adhesion, evaporation, maybe other interesting things we 
will never know, but I don't think that the letter A knows that there is a 
letter B there. Do you? I don't think the letters have a consciousness because 
they aren't actually beings, the patterns which they embody to us are in our 
experience, not independent beings.

Craig 


[Roger Clough], [rcl...@verizon.net]
11/15/2012 
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen

----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: Craig Weinberg 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-11-12, 09:54:53
Subject: Re: My embarassing misunderstanding of the intelligence of computers


Doesn't mean that a coffee filter is intelligent too? If so, is a series of 
coffee filters more intelligent than one? What about one with a hole in it?

Craig


On Sunday, November 11, 2012 8:14:05 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: 
Hi 

I was wrong. 

According to my own definition of intelligence-- that it is the 
ability of an entity, having at least some measure of free will, 
to make choices on its own (without outside help)--  a 
computer can have intelligence, and intelligence in no small measure. 

The ability to sort is an example. To give a simple example, a 
computer can sort information, just as Maxwell's Demon could, 
into two bins. Instead of temperature, it could just be a number. 
Numbers larger than A go into one bin, smaller than A go 
into another bin.  It does it all on its own, using an "if" statement. 





Roger Clough, rcl...@verizon.net 
11/11/2012   
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen 

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