Hi Craig Weinberg 

But not ONE field.


[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
11/17/2012 
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen

----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: Craig Weinberg 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-11-16, 15:57:06
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: My embarassing misunderstanding of 
theintelligenceofcomputers




On Friday, November 16, 2012 8:42:24 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote:
Hi Craig Weinberg 

When I say that all bodies live, I failed to state that they must be monads, 
which
means that that they must be of one part.  I don't think mannekins would 
qualify,
nor cartoons, which aren't even bodies.  " Of one part" I think means that there
is something holding the thing (then a substance)  together in some way, like 
life.
Or an electromagnetic, biological,  or chemical field. 

But mannequins are held together by chemical and electromagnetic fields.
 



[Roger Clough], [rcl...@verizon.net]
11/16/2012 
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen

----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: Craig Weinberg 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-11-16, 07:16:17
Subject: Re: Re: Re: My embarassing misunderstanding of the 
intelligenceofcomputers




On Friday, November 16, 2012 5:55:41 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: 
Hi Craig Weinberg 

I agree with what you say, but there's no need to humanize
the coffee filters nor humanize intelligence or consciousness.
I'm not talking here about IQ. My point (speaking here as Leibniz)  is that 
nature down to the lowliest beings (a grain of sand) has intelligence 
of some sort. Nature is alive, and life is intelligence.   

My point though is just because we put fibers into a mold or dots on a page 
into a form we can recognize doesn't mean that we have created new life and 
intelligence. There is a difference between assembling something from tiny 
spatial-object parts and something reproducing itself from 
teleological-experiential wholes. A mannequin is not a person. The plaster and 
steel the mannequin is made of may certainly have a quality of experience, and 
although it is hard to speculate on exactly what kinds of experiences those are 
or what level of microcosm or macrocosm they are associated with, one thing 
that I am quite certain of is that the plaster and steel mannequin is not 
having the experience of a human person, no matter how convincing of a 
mannequin it looks to us to be. The same goes for cartoons, drawings, photos, 
movies..those things aren't alive or intelligent, but they are made of things 
which, on some level, are capable of sense participation. Computers are just a 
more pronounced example. As they improve they may be more convincing imitations 
of our human intelligence, but that quality of awareness is only a recorded 
reflection of our own, it is not being generated by nature directly and it is 
neither alive nor intelligent.

Craig





[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
11/16/2012 
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen

----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: Craig Weinberg 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-11-15, 13:53:48
Subject: Re: Re: My embarassing misunderstanding of the intelligence ofcomputers




On Thursday, November 15, 2012 9:42:25 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: 
Hi Craig Weinberg 

Everything has at least some intelligence or consciousness, according to 
Leibniz's metaphysics,
even rocks.  But these "bare naked monads" are essentially in deep, drugged  
sleep and darkness,
or at best drunk. Leibniz called such a state the unconscious way before Freud 
and Jung.

I believe that there is an experience on the micro-level of what the coffee 
filter is made of - molecules held together as fibers maybe, bit I don't think 
that it knows or cares about filtering. It's like if you write the letters A 
and B on a piece of paper - I think there is an experience there on the 
molecular level, of adhesion, evaporation, maybe other interesting things we 
will never know, but I don't think that the letter A knows that there is a 
letter B there. Do you? I don't think the letters have a consciousness because 
they aren't actually beings, the patterns which they embody to us are in our 
experience, not independent beings.

Craig 


[Roger Clough], [rcl...@verizon.net]
11/15/2012 
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen

----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: Craig Weinberg 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-11-12, 09:54:53
Subject: Re: My embarassing misunderstanding of the intelligence of computers


Doesn't mean that a coffee filter is intelligent too? If so, is a series of 
coffee filters more intelligent than one? What about one with a hole in it?

Craig


On Sunday, November 11, 2012 8:14:05 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: 
Hi 

I was wrong. 

According to my own definition of intelligence-- that it is the 
ability of an entity, having at least some measure of free will, 
to make choices on its own (without outside help)--  a 
computer can have intelligence, and intelligence in no small measure. 

The ability to sort is an example. To give a simple example, a 
computer can sort information, just as Maxwell's Demon could, 
into two bins. Instead of temperature, it could just be a number. 
Numbers larger than A go into one bin, smaller than A go 
into another bin.  It does it all on its own, using an "if" statement. 





Roger Clough, rcl...@verizon.net 
11/11/2012   
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen 

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