On Saturday, November 17, 2012 6:26:12 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote:
>
>  Hi Craig Weinberg 
>  
> But not ONE field.
>

Neither is the brain or body held together by one field.
 

>  
>  
> [Roger Clough], [rcl...@verizon.net] <javascript:>
> 11/17/2012 
> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen
>  
>
> ----- Receiving the following content ----- 
> *From:* Craig Weinberg <javascript:> 
> *Receiver:* everything-list <javascript:> 
> *Time:* 2012-11-16, 15:57:06
> *Subject:* Re: Re: Re: Re: My embarassing misunderstanding of 
> theintelligenceofcomputers
>
>  
>
> On Friday, November 16, 2012 8:42:24 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: 
>>
>>  Hi Craig Weinberg 
>>  
>> When I say that all bodies live, I failed to state that they must be 
>> monads, which
>> means that that they must be of one part.  I don't think mannekins would 
>> qualify,
>> nor cartoons, which aren't even bodies.  " Of one part" I think means 
>> that there
>> is something holding the thing (then a substance)  together in some way, 
>> like life.
>> Or an electromagnetic, biological,  or chemical field. 
>>
>
> But mannequins are held together by chemical and electromagnetic fields.
>  
>
>>   
>>  
>> [Roger Clough], [rcl...@verizon.net]
>> 11/16/2012 
>> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen
>>  
>>
>> ----- Receiving the following content ----- 
>> *From:* Craig Weinberg 
>> *Receiver:* everything-list 
>> *Time:* 2012-11-16, 07:16:17
>> *Subject:* Re: Re: Re: My embarassing misunderstanding of the 
>> intelligenceofcomputers
>>
>>  
>>
>> On Friday, November 16, 2012 5:55:41 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: 
>>>
>>>  Hi Craig Weinberg 
>>>  
>>> I agree with what you say, but there's no need to humanize
>>> the coffee filters nor humanize intelligence or consciousness.
>>> I'm not talking here about IQ. My point (speaking here as Leibniz)  is 
>>> that 
>>> nature down to the lowliest beings (a grain of sand) has intelligence 
>>> of some sort. Nature is alive, and life is intelligence.   
>>>
>>
>> My point though is just because we put fibers into a mold or dots on a 
>> page into a form we can recognize doesn't mean that we have created new 
>> life and intelligence. There is a difference between assembling something 
>> from tiny spatial-object parts and something reproducing itself from 
>> teleological-experiential wholes. A mannequin is not a person. The plaster 
>> and steel the mannequin is made of may certainly have a quality of 
>> experience, and although it is hard to speculate on exactly what kinds of 
>> experiences those are or what level of microcosm or macrocosm they are 
>> associated with, one thing that I am quite certain of is that the plaster 
>> and steel mannequin is not having the experience of a human person, no 
>> matter how convincing of a mannequin it looks to us to be. The same goes 
>> for cartoons, drawings, photos, movies..those things aren't alive or 
>> intelligent, but they are made of things which, on some level, are capable 
>> of sense participation. Computers are just a more pronounced example. As 
>> they improve they may be more convincing imitations of our human 
>> intelligence, but that quality of awareness is only a recorded reflection 
>> of our own, it is not being generated by nature directly and it is neither 
>> alive nor intelligent.
>>
>> Craig
>>
>>
>>    
>>>
>>> [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
>>> 11/16/2012 
>>> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen
>>>  
>>>
>>> ----- Receiving the following content ----- 
>>> *From:* Craig Weinberg 
>>> *Receiver:* everything-list 
>>> *Time:* 2012-11-15, 13:53:48
>>> *Subject:* Re: Re: My embarassing misunderstanding of the intelligence 
>>> ofcomputers
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> On Thursday, November 15, 2012 9:42:25 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: 
>>>>
>>>>  Hi Craig Weinberg 
>>>>  
>>>> Everything has at least some intelligence or consciousness, according 
>>>> to Leibniz's metaphysics,
>>>> even rocks.  But these "bare naked monads" are essentially in deep, 
>>>> drugged  sleep and darkness,
>>>> or at best drunk. Leibniz called such a state the unconscious way 
>>>> before Freud and Jung.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I believe that there is an experience on the micro-level of what the 
>>> coffee filter is made of - molecules held together as fibers maybe, bit I 
>>> don't think that it knows or cares about filtering. It's like if you write 
>>> the letters A and B on a piece of paper - I think there is an experience 
>>> there on the molecular level, of adhesion, evaporation, maybe other 
>>> interesting things we will never know, but I don't think that the letter A 
>>> knows that there is a letter B there. Do you? I don't think the letters 
>>> have a consciousness because they aren't actually beings, the patterns 
>>> which they embody to us are in our experience, not independent beings.
>>>
>>> Craig 
>>>
>>>>   
>>>> [Roger Clough], [rcl...@verizon.net]
>>>> 11/15/2012 
>>>> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> ----- Receiving the following content ----- 
>>>> *From:* Craig Weinberg 
>>>> *Receiver:* everything-list 
>>>> *Time:* 2012-11-12, 09:54:53
>>>> *Subject:* Re: My embarassing misunderstanding of the intelligence of 
>>>> computers
>>>>
>>>>  Doesn't mean that a coffee filter is intelligent too? If so, is a 
>>>> series of coffee filters more intelligent than one? What about one with a 
>>>> hole in it?
>>>>
>>>> Craig
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sunday, November 11, 2012 8:14:05 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: 
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi 
>>>>>
>>>>> I was wrong. 
>>>>>
>>>>> According to my own definition of intelligence-- that it is the 
>>>>> ability of an entity, having at least some measure of free will, 
>>>>> to make choices on its own (without outside help)--  a 
>>>>> computer can have intelligence, and intelligence in no small measure. 
>>>>>
>>>>> The ability to sort is an example. To give a simple example, a 
>>>>> computer can sort information, just as Maxwell's Demon could, 
>>>>> into two bins. Instead of temperature, it could just be a number. 
>>>>> Numbers larger than A go into one bin, smaller than A go 
>>>>> into another bin.  It does it all on its own, using an "if" statement. 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Roger Clough, rcl...@verizon.net 
>>>>> 11/11/2012   
>>>>> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen 
>>>>>
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