On 12/17/2012 10:55 AM, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi Craig Weinberg

Actually the fourth commandment is to HONOR your parents.
You don't have to love them, just respect them for what they've
given you.

I think that "Thou shalt not steal" covers theft from future generations of people, which is what "deficit spending" actually is! But who cares about those old dusty and hide bound rules. We can live free from contraints of reality, so long as we can figure out rational reasons to do so.

It seems that we are doomed to learn lessons the hard way. "Damn, that stove burned my hand. I had better not touch it w/o a insulating device..."

[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen

----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Craig Weinberg
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-12-17, 09:23:15
Subject: Re: Men don't get no respect these days

On Monday, December 17, 2012 9:12:39 AM UTC-5, telmo_menezes wrote:
Hi Roger,

Lakoff is correct about conservatism and the father.
It is not a pathology, however, to respect your  parents,


and respect is a mixture of love and fear.

For me respect is a mixture of love and admiration, which are things that have 
to be earned. I loved and admired my father. I never feared him. To fear him I 
would have to believe that he was willing to harm me, and that would probably 
interfere with the love/admiration part.

Yes. Fear within the family is unquestionably pathological. People who have 
lived with fear I think are compelled to rationalize it by equating it with 
Fright - which is a natural state of exhilaration and vigilance in the presence 
of a potential sudden threat. Fear serves nothing but tyranny, vanity, and 
perversion. Stamping out fear of every kind in the world is a worthy cause.

Admiration is the healthy basis for a natural family hierarchy. Unconditional 
love means that you know that your parents and you are nearly the same people 
and that it will always be their good pleasure to support you in anything that 
you truly want to be or do.

My mother is a catholic and my father was agnostic. He agreed to put me through religious 
school and remain neutral on the entire thing. Up to one day when I was a little kid and 
couldn't sleep because I was afraid of going to hell. He told me: "don't worry, that 
god they are telling you about doesn't exist". It was the biggest relief in my life.

Religion tried to instill fear into me, when I was a little kid and 
psychologically vulnerable. My father taught me how to be a decent human being, 
no strings attached. Guess who I still love these days?

That's the thing, proponents of tough love don't ever seem to dare to look for 
falsification. I was just debating this on Quora last week with a guy telling 
me how his parents punished him and they were the greatest parents, but then 
said he had committed 50 felonies including armed robbery by the time he was 
17. Uhh, ok. Stockholm syndrome much?


That's one of the ten commandments.

And if people feared God more, incidents like the
mass murders in CT would be much fewer. God
should be returned to the classroom. It doesn't have to be
the Christian God.

Let's not even discuss the mountain of atrocities that were committed in God's 
name. A recent one: 9/11.

The USA (a country I greatly admire for its many achievements, including its 
constitution) is currently the least secular country in the western world. Yet 
it's the only place where this stuff is happening. How come?

Here in godless Europe we have the lowest levels of church attendance ever, 
legalised prostitution, gay marriage, decriminalised drugs and it's ok to show 
female breasts on TV. Yet none of that stuff is happening here. The only 
similar event we had was perpetrated by a god fearing hard-core conservative.

The Women's Movement has unfortunately killed
the father in their understable desire for wage equality etc.

I had a great father. Many of my childhood friends did too, and then became 
fathers themselves, and they seem to be doing well. What do you mean exactly?

I challenge you to find one ad on TV or radio that
does not feature a man as other than a fool.

And the death of the father has turned progressives into
anarchists. The death of the father is the deathy of morality.
It's the main problem with society today.

By objective metrics measuring violence, society nowadays is the best it ever 
was. The likelihood of you being the victim of a violent crime is the lowest 
ever. Mainstream media blows things out of proportion, that's all.


[Roger Clough], [rcl...@verizon.net]
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen

----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Craig Weinberg
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-12-16, 01:02:40
Subject: Re: Wisdom from Calvin Cooldge

On Sunday, December 16, 2012 12:15:28 AM UTC-5, Stephen Paul King wrote:
On 12/15/2012 5:51 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:

Can you answer my question?

Because conservatives generally speak from the perspective of the dominant 

Hi Craig,

     Are there some other characteristics of conservatives that identifies 
them? Does the particular nature of the culture matter for you?

Lakoff seems to be on to something when he says that conservatives represent 
the view of the strict father oriented family. Which gibes with the whole 
'pathology rooted in fear and aggression' diagnosis in that study I quoted.

The perspective is always - 'people who aren't like me have it easy' or 
'inequality isn't important'. It's never 'yes, of course as a white male in the 
US, I am among the most privileged people who has ever lived, and I recognize 
the problems that might pose to others outside of my group and how important it 
is to address those problems and participate with those others as equals to the 
extent that I can.'
     OK, being born into a class automatically places a burden on one's life or 
otherwise coerces a person to act in a certain way? Really? Is this an absolute 
fact? Care for a minority report on that?

It's not about how a person acts, it's about where the person is allowed to 
act. What country clubs they have access to. How long they have to tour Europe 
after college before they get come home and apply for six figure jobs.




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