Hi Roger,

On 17 Dec 2012, at 19:34, Roger Clough wrote:

Hi Telmo Menezes

By killing the father, I meant belittling the male,
but come to think of it, I don't recall seeing
anything direct except in the ads and how
men were treated on the screen. But it's
been achieved.

And indeed, there have been many atrocities
committed in God's name. But they really
din't fear God-- because murder is forbidden
in any religion I can think of.

Religion doesn't make the USA better because
most of our religion is just church-going-- social
Christianity.


I would prefer, if possible, that another does not harm me, not because he fear god, but because he is a good guy. Or perhaps he suspects himself to be me and naturally avoids the unnecessary harm.

It is enough to fear the Devil, for God sake.

For the Neoplatonist, God is good, by definition. You can't really fear the good. No?

Or perhaps you are or feel guilty? Even in that case I would think that it is better to fear the Devil than God.

But to be honest, I am sure of nothing, on this plane, and I am perhaps extending a bit wildly the arithmetical interpretation of Plotinus on the Enneads not yet treated "arithmetically". (= in layman term, I have not interviewed the LUM on this).

Yet, to fear God seems to me almost like a contradiction. God is truth, and I can imagine a reasonable amount of reasonable fears, but for the neoplatonist God is good, also, and it is more the departure from truth which are to be feared, in the limit. It is the departure from truth which might make truth looking frightening, after sometimes, but that's what the Devil will exploited.

Bruno





[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
12/17/2012
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen

----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Telmo Menezes
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-12-17, 09:12:39
Subject: Re: Men don't get no respect these days

Hi Roger,

Lakoff is correct about conservatism and the father.
It is not a pathology, however, to爎espect your 爌arents,

Agreed.
�
and respect is a mixture of love and fear.

For me respect is a mixture of love and admiration, which are things that have to be earned. I loved and admired my father. I never feared him. To fear him I would have to believe that he was willing to harm me, and that would probably interfere with the love/ admiration part.

My mother is a catholic and my father was agnostic. He agreed to put me through religious school and remain neutral on the entire thing. Up to one day when I was a little kid and couldn't sleep because I was afraid of going to hell. He told me: "don't worry, that god they are telling you about doesn't exist". It was the biggest relief in my life.

Religion tried to instill fear into me, when I was a little kid and psychologically vulnerable. My father taught me how to be a decent human being, no strings attached. Guess who I still love these days?
�
That's one of the ten commandments.
�
And if people feared God more, incidents like the
mass murders in CT would be much fewer. God
should be returned to the classroom. It doesn't have to be
the Christian God.

Let's not even discuss the mountain of atrocities that were committed in God's name. A recent one: 9/11.

The USA (a country I greatly admire for its many achievements, including its constitution) is currently the least secular country in the western world. Yet it's the only place where this stuff is happening. How come?

Here in godless Europe we have the lowest levels of church attendance ever, legalised prostitution, gay marriage, decriminalised drugs and it's ok to show female breasts on TV. Yet none of that stuff is happening here. The only similar event we had was爌erpetrated燽y a god fearing hard-core conservative.
�
�
The Women's Movement has unfortunately killed
the father in their understable desire for wage equality etc.

I had a great father. Many of my childhood friends did too, and then became fathers themselves, and they seem to be doing well. What do you mean exactly?
�
I challenge you to find one ad on TV or radio that
does not feature a man as other than a fool.
�
�
And the death of the father has turned progressives into
anarchists. The death of the father is the deathy of morality.
It's the main problem with society today.

By objective metrics measuring violence, society nowadays is the best it ever was. The likelihood of you being the victim of a violent crime is the lowest ever. Mainstream media blows things out of proportion, that's all.

Best,
Telmo.
�
�
�
[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
12/17/2012
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen
�
----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Craig Weinberg
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-12-16, 01:02:40
Subject: Re: Wisdom from Calvin Cooldge



On Sunday, December 16, 2012 12:15:28 AM UTC-5, Stephen Paul King wrote:
On 12/15/2012 5:51 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
Can you answer my question?

Because conservatives generally speak from the perspective of the dominant culture.

Hi Craig,

牋� Are there some other characteristics of conservatives that identifies them? Does the particular nature of the culture matter for you?

Lakoff seems to be on to something when he says that conservatives represent the view of the strict father oriented family. Which gibes with the whole 'pathology rooted in fear and aggression' diagnosis in that study I quoted.�

The perspective is always - 'people who aren't like me have it easy' or 'inequality isn't important'. It's never 'yes, of course as a white male in the US, I am among the most privileged people who has ever lived, and I recognize the problems that might pose to others outside of my group and how important it is to address those problems and participate with those others as equals to the extent that I can.'

牋� OK, being born into a class automatically places a burden on one's life or otherwise coerces a person to act in a certain way? Really? Is this an absolute fact? Care for a minority report on that?

It's not about how a person acts, it's about where the person is allowed to act. What country clubs they have access to. How long they have to tour Europe after college before they get come home and apply for six figure jobs.


Craig
�


--
Onward!

Stephen

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