On 12/20/2012 5:12 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:

On 19 Dec 2012, at 17:01, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote:

On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 11:43 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be <mailto:marc...@ulb.ac.be>> wrote:

    Is pro-life activism enhancing life or diminishing life?

    Some pro-life doctor are against euthanasia, even passive
    euthanasia, with the result that they transform dying patient
    into machines. But most of them are naive believer, and as such,
    they disbelieve comp, and so their pro-life activity begins to be

    The question is:  does an artificial, or even virtual body,
    enhance life or suppress life?


That's tricky.

The aristotelean pro-life doctor does not believe she/he is turning the dying patient into a machine. That Doctor thinks they are saving the universe from one of its fundamental properties: death, entropy. I don't know if most of them are "naive believer" in the sense that most doctors in this domain are well aware that it is a loosing battle, and I guess "outing" yourself as "pro-euthanasia" carries some heavy implications in your day to day practice, interaction, and judgement from peers, directors, and employers. I guess, most would be "cooler" with this if they could. So "naive believer", yeah maybe some, but more I'd guess live in fear of getting their voice heard.

To tackle the question straight-on:

1) depends on manufacturer, market, price and warranty conditions, and the local universe. You did remember to submit the appropriate forms before rental of "Bruno", didn't you? I say this, because it seems like sometimes you forget with this kind of question :)

I am not sure I get the point. Mine was only that the pro-life doctor will transform people into machine (as they do already somehow), and that can contradict the general anti-mechanist prejudice of many pro-life activists.

Dear PGC and Bruno,

This is an excellent topic as it gets us into the ethical realm of comp! I am very happy to see this discussion! I have some questions. Are we thinking of Life qualitatively or quantitatively? Do we have a canonical definition of life with which to make judgements, as to its value, that are truthful under all conditions?

2) Heidegger was just joking. Nobody was "thrown"; he just got a bit of nausea after signing all the soul-body binding contracts and wants modification of warranty terms. I don't know whether his appeal was heard by the courts, any of you?

Lol. But still don't see the point. keep in mind that logicians are simple mind :)

Overly so, sadly. Rationality has an Achilies heel, it cannot see its own limitations. This is not to say that I advocate that we cast aside rationality, but that we understand that all reasoning is limited inherently by its premises, those axioms and truths that are assumed in its "headcanon" (to borrow a term from fan discussion groups) and so we just at least assume some form of believe in fallibility and always be on the look out for situations that are genuine failures to predict accurately, for our personal belief system's truths (aka headcanon).

3) But after flying for platonic infinities through every possible universe as a disembodied soul eye with infinite memory at any speed you wished, you would go sign up for another round to be entangled with some strange universe physically again and push the "format disk" button once again and agree to all constraints, just for novelty's sake and say "sh*t, it's boring here... but I am no chicken, I choose a local universe where aristoteleans are winning, just to make it more interesting, because the platonic localities are too much already like here...also, I'll choose one where matter is really convincing and makes us unable to define life properly, so that I can pose this question in a forum someday, and confuse the others a bit, hehe."

OK. But for once, my question was terrestrial. Of course such question makes less global sense in Platonia, but can still make sense locally, even there.


PGC, your scenario assumes the impossible: to maintain a memory of the flight one must have infinite memory storage capacity *and* the ability to instantly retrieve any bit of data from such. Our currently best theories that you would collapse into a black hole the instant you started such a flight if you where a physical being. If your a ghost and free from physical laws, how could you interact with physical worlds at all? But I think that you are trying to make a different point... Indefinite life extension seems to have a price, you can not remember who you where in any past incarnations. Actually, it would be accurate to say there there is no "you" in any 3p sense at all. There is only a 1p idea of what you thing you are and what you can prove. Betting that we survive a QS event is what we do continuously by interacting with the world, we survive physically in a 3p sense only because in the continuation there is a body that you can find yourself in that looks close enough to the old one and your environment looks pretty much the same, so you don't notice that your entire universe and body is brand new, one 10^44 sec. later but with signs of age. This is Last Thursdayism. We think that this idea is somehow wrong because we can appeal to some-kind of absolute 3p that can somehow "tell the difference", good luck with that. Real gods never answer back in a 3p way.



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