Hi Roger,

On 28 Dec 2012, at 13:53, Roger Clough wrote:


Thanks for the clarification, I was wrong about 3p.
But according to Leibniz, 1p is always in God's eye,
but our personal pov is never undistorted or perfectly clear,
and operates down here, which is why I classified it as
being contingent.

3p have necessities and contingencies, but they have also their divine and terrestrial aspect. Here, Divine just means True, and Terrestrial just means effectively believed (and true as I study ideally correct machines).

So there is an OUTER GOD, which is the ONE, and which is 3p, in the comp theory, as it is the collection of true arithmetical propositions.

There is a knower, and it is the INNER GOD, it is the one "available" in the mystical experience. For the ideally correct machine it is both terrestrial and divine (S4Grz = S4Grz*).

The Noùs, i.e. the "accessible" 3p, and the Matter splits into divine and terrestrial parts.

Eventually we get 8 person points of view, which gives 8 ways to see arithmetical truth from inside:

TRUTH (outer God) 0p
INTELLIGIBLE (by Man)                INTELLIGIBLE (by God)         3p
SOUL (inner God) 1p

Intelligible MATTER (by Man)   Intelligible MATTER (by God)   3p
sensible MATTER (by Man)       sensible MATTER (by God)      1p

This sum up an interpretation of Plotinus in term of the naturally existing intensional variant of self-reference. This gives eight different logics/mathematics.

if Gödel's incompleteness theorem was false, or if Church thesis was false, the 8 hypostases would collapse into effective truth. But things are not that easy for the machine looking inward.

I have no 2p, as I am not studying the private life of couples of machines :)

Bruno



[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
12/28/2012
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen
----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Bruno Marchal
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-12-27, 06:09:25
Subject: Re: On the truth of comp -->Fw: 1p= pragmatic or experiential truth vs3p = truth by calculation


On 26 Dec 2012, at 17:33, Roger Clough wrote:


Note that

1p = contingent truth

Not at all. Each person pov has its own set of necessities and contingencies.



3p = necessary truth

Not correct (in comp, and weakening of comp). There are many pure 3p arithmetical contingencies. This is highly counter-intuitive and is a consequence of G鰀el's incompleteness, mainly. More on this later (perhaps on FOAR).



So the question of whether comp is true or not is
whether or when or where

1p = 3p

In God's eye, and nowhere else. In the computationalist theory.

Bruno





----- Have received the following content -----
Sender: Roger Clough
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-12-26, 11:26:27
Subject: 1p= pragmatic or experiential truth vs 3p = truth by calculation

Hi everything-list


IMHO that comp iis true or not is equalvalent to the question


does

1p  =  3p  ?

where

1p= truth by experience (or actuality) and

3p = truth by description  (by theory)



[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
12/26/2012
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen


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