On Sunday, December 30, 2012 12:41:33 PM UTC-5, rclough wrote:
> A Systems Theory Approach to the Mind/Body Problem (ver. 1) 
> The Black Box theory of Mind as given below suggests that the mind/body 
> problem 
> may be expressed analogously as a system theory in which mental 
> consciousness or subjectivity 
> is the time activity of the physical brain expressed in Fourier frequency 
> space. 
> A spacial transform may also be involved, but for the moment we will only 
> consider the frequency 
> transform. And it may be added that perhaps some different type of 
> transform 
> might succeed this version 
> The ultimate model for the mind is what is sometimes called "Platonia", a 
> timeless 
> perfect Heavenly world of reason. Being timeless, it is not unreasonable 
> to characterize 
> it as being subjective, that is, in frequency space. The objective 
> physical Aristotelian world 
> (down here below, so to speak) is more suitably chartacterizes as in time. 
> Thus I propose that we have a dual-aspect reality, 
> (a).  The world from the objective, physical point of view, in time. 
> (a)^-1,  The world from the subjective, mental point of view, in frequency 
> space 
> ___________________________________________________________________________________________
> The Black Box Consciousness Model [Objective Brain/Body->Subjective 
> Mind/Mental->Objective Brain/Body].   
> Here's how I now see the whole mindbrain consciousness complex:   
>     I (physical input signal, brain/body, objective) ---> II 
> (Consciousness [nonphysical black box "signal processing"] , mind/mental, 
> subjective) ----> 
>     ----->III (physical output signal, brain/body, objective)   
>     I= Firstness (1p) = physical input signal from outside world into 
> brain ----->   
>     II=Secondness (2p) = the mind's black box of mental (not brain) signal 
> processing --->   
>     III=Thirdness (3p) = physical signal output to outside world through 
> brain. 
> ________________________________________________________________   
> Without going into more detail at this point, the theory can be stated 
> from: 
> F (t) = Firstness or the objective (ohysical) 
>     input signal of the brain in time, 
> F(w) =  the subjective, mental or form of F(t) 
> S (t) = Secondness or the System function in the t or objective world 
> S (w) = Secondness or the System function in the w or subjective world 
> T(t) = Thirdness or objective output signal of the brain in time,   
> T(w) =  the subjective, mental or form of T(t) 
> The overall theory being: 
> T(w) = F(w)+S(w) 
> One might then define consciousness as 
> S(w) = T(w)/F(w) 
> ---------------------------------------------- 
Why does the objective signal get transformed into something else? Why 
wouldn't consciousness just be:

S(t) = T(t)/F(t)?

By beginning with the presumption of signal, you already have taken 
awareness of some kind for granted. What is a signal? What responds to a 
signal and how does it accomplish that?

Also if you consider the idea of frequency space, you should find that it 
is an abstraction and ultimately impossible. Frequency is the expected 
repetition of events juxtaposed against their absence - an experience 
dependent on time but not space at all. Projecting a spatialized model of 
frequency shifts the native subjective presentation of time into an 
objective re-presentation which is simultaneous rather than sequential. The 
graph of a wave function is a meaningless line-curve unless interpreted 
with a narrative metaphor.

If you flip your model over, you'll see that time is not an exterior 
reality but an interior experience, and that interior experience is the 
actual monadic ground of being. There is no detached physical point of 
view, that is just an idea which makes it easier for us to model our 
experiences intellectually, but in reality, all time is an interior 

> [Roger Clough], [rcl...@verizon.net <javascript:>]   
> 12/30/2012   
> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen 

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
For more options, visit this group at 

Reply via email to