Hi Bruno Marchal Thanks. I am finally beginning to understand your concept of dreaming machines. A fertile idea, which, when understood, makes comp seem more realizable.
The inverse process --producing solids with structures by a process such as the precipitation of ice crystals in a glass of cooling water, seems even more likely-- to me at least. The Big Bang then might be something similar, with an explosion replacing the precipitation, that of particles from Mind. If the One=Mind is the source of all that is created, then physical existence had to come out of mind. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/11/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen ----- Receiving the following content ----- From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-10, 13:47:39 Subject: Re: What is Idealism ? On 10 Jan 2013, at 14:49, Roger Clough wrote: > Since there has been some discussion of Plato and Leibniz, > who are both IMHO Idealists, but of different forms, > and since I have argued much against materialism, which > is inverse to Idealism, I thought the following > might be helpful: > > Idealism > > From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia > Not to be confused with Idealism (ethics). > This article is about the philosophical notion of idealism. For > other uses, see Idealism (disambiguation). > > The 20th century British scientist Sir James Jeans wrote that "the > Universe begins to look more like a great thought than like a great > machine" > In philosophy, idealism is the group of philosophies which assert > that reality, or reality as we can know it, is > fundamentally mental, mentally constructed, or otherwise immaterial. In *that* sense comp leads to "idealism". But prefer to say "immaterialism", because "reality" is not the product of the mental. Reality is arithmetic (no need of more on the ontology), and the physical is a mental construct of dreaming machines (a concept which can be translated in arithmetic, accepting Church's thesis). I need an arithmetic independent of the mind, because with comp, the mind can be defined basically by a universal number mathematical property. Then matter becomes a sort of projective border or derivative of the mind. Idealism is immaterialistic, but immaterialism is not necessarily idealistic. We can be mathematicalist, or arithmericalist instead. Bruno > Epistemologically, > idealism manifests as a skepticism about the possibility of knowing > any mind-independent thing. In a sociological sense, > idealism emphasizes how human ideas. especially beliefs and values, > shape society. >  As an ontological doctrine, idealism goes further, asserting > that all entities are composed of mind or spirit. Idealism thus > rejects physicalist and dualist theories that fail to ascribe > priority to the mind. The corresponding idea in metaphysics is monism. > The earliest extant arguments that the world of experience is > grounded in the mental derive from India and Greece. The Hindu > idealists in India > and the Greek Neoplatonists gave pantheistic arguments for an all- > pervading consciousness as the ground or true nature of reality. > In contrast, the Yogacara school, which arose within Mahayana > Buddhism in India in the 4th century CE, based its "mind-only" > idealism to a greater extent on phenomenological analyses of > personal experience. This turn toward the subjective anticipated > empiricists such as George Berkeley, who revived idealism in 18th- > century Europe by employing skeptical arguments against materialism. > Beginning with [Leibniz], Immanuel Kant, German idealists such as > ,G. W. F. Hegel, Johann Gottlieb Fichte, Friedrich Wilhelm Joseph > Schelling, and > Arthur Schopenhauer dominated 19th-century philosophy. This > tradition, which emphasized the mental or "ideal" character of all > phenomena, > birthed idealistic and subjectivist schools ranging from British > idealism to phenomenalism to existentialism. > The historical influence of this branch of idealism remains central > even to the schools that rejected its metaphysical > assumptions, such as Marxism, pragmatism, and positivism. > > [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] > 1/10/2013 > "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to email@example.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en > . > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to firstname.lastname@example.org. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to email@example.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.