# Re: Quntum waves are probability (mathemaqtical) waves, not physical waves

On 12 Jan 2013, at 15:45, Telmo Menezes wrote:

Hi Roger,

Sure, neither do I.
But if you preform the double slit experience you will see physical wave-like patters of interference. If it quacks like a duck... I'm not a materialist and I have no problem with the idea of the physical world being a dream. But I also believe that all experiences are equally real, including dreams. Including the literal dreams we have when we sleep. So I believe in the physical world without being a materialist.

And that follows from the comp (or weakened) assumption. But then the physical can be redefined, as many things remains physical, even if not fundamentally so. In that case the quantum waves are physical, as they have observable effects. They are as much physical than particles and planets.

I am not sure that Roger is open to conceive a dream form of "idealism" (itself relying only on arithmetic).

Also, with comp, you can always recover a form of local physicalism, by lowering the substitution level. Comp entails (I think) that we can lower down the substitution level ad infinitum, so ~ comp is guarantied to remain consistent for ever.

Bruno

On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 1:14 PM, Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net> wrote:
Hi Telmo Menezes

I don't pretend to be a physicist, but I do know that
quantum waves are probability functions.  There are
the radius and time t in the Schroedinger equation,
so there must be some correpondence to the physical world,
but nothing physical is waving.

So suppose we have a physical box.  The probability
waves have to conform to the dimensions of the box, but
they are ghost-like waves of probability.

[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
1/12/2013
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen
----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Telmo Menezes
Time: 2013-01-12, 07:01:01
Subject: Re: MWI as an ontological error, it should be TwoAspects Theory

Hi Roger,

How can you have a wave without some notion of spatial/temporal dimensions?

On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Roger Clough  wrote:

Hi everything-list,

I don't believe that Descartes would accept the MWI.
Here's why:

I think that the ManyWorldsInterpretation of QM is incorrect,
due to the mistaken notion (IMHO) that quantum waves
are physical waves, so that everything is physical and materialistic.

This seems to deny "quantum weirdness" observed
in the two-slit experiment. Seemingly if both the wave
and the photon are physical, there should be nothing weird
happening.

My own view is that the weirdness arises because the
waves and the photons are residents of two completely
different but interpenetrating worlds, where:

1) the photon is a resident of the physical world,
where by physical I mean (along with Descartes)
"extended in space",

2) the quantum wave in nonphysical, being a resident of
the nonphysical world (the world of mind), which has no
extension in space.

Under these conditions, there is no need
to create an additional physical world, since each
can exist as aspects of the the same world,
one moving in spactime and being physical, the other, like
mind, moving simulataneously in the nonphysical world
beyond spacetime.

[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
1/12/2013
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen

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