On Sunday, January 13, 2013 11:57:48 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote:
> On 12 Jan 2013, at 13:01, Telmo Menezes wrote:
> Hi Roger,
> How can you have a wave without some notion of spatial/temporal dimensions?
> I don't see why we cannot have purely mathematical waves (easily related
> to lines and circles),
Lines and circles are spatial geometries.
> and physical waves, like water wave or tsunami, or sound waves.
> A propagating wave is a sort of oscillation contagious to its
All of those are spatio-temporal sensory experiences and presences. A
purely mathematical wave which is independent of all spatial or temporal
representation can only be a figurative wave. If you have concretely real
substances in 'space' or concretely real experiences in 'time' then you can
have a figurative language which refers to the wavy qualities which we
infer through sense as being correlated on either side of the
public-private range of presentation. This wavy-ness is an idea, a
metaphorical figure which we use to re-present the commonality which we
understand internally but as an exteriorized, generic symbol.
Once we have formalized this synthetic wave figure quantitatively, we can
do all kinds of incredible things with it, just as a painter uses a certain
kind of brushstroke. But the strokeness isn't a thing itself - it has no
power to do anything by itself, it is pure fiction (albeit fiction which is
informative about sense on all levels of realism, but only from the
fictional 3p voyeur perspective).
> Summing waves gives arbitrary functions (in some functional spaces), so
> simple wave can be see as the base in the space of "arbitrary" functions
> (for reasonable functional spaces, there are any natural restrictions here).
> The whole problem with QM, is that the wave's physical interpretation is
> an amplitude of probability, and that we can make them interfere as if they
> were physical. But in MWI, the quantum waves are just the map of the
> relative accessible physical realities. An electronic orbital is a map of
> where you can find an electron, for an example.
> I would say it is something physical (even if it emerges from the non
> physical relations between numbers).
> On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Roger Clough
> > wrote:
>> Hi everything-list,
>> I don't believe that Descartes would accept the MWI.
>> Here's why:
>> I think that the ManyWorldsInterpretation of QM is incorrect,
>> due to the mistaken notion (IMHO) that quantum waves
>> are physical waves, so that everything is physical and materialistic.
>> This seems to deny "quantum weirdness" observed
>> in the two-slit experiment. Seemingly if both the wave
>> and the photon are physical, there should be nothing weird
>> My own view is that the weirdness arises because the
>> waves and the photons are residents of two completely
>> different but interpenetrating worlds, where:
>> 1) the photon is a resident of the physical world,
>> where by physical I mean (along with Descartes)
>> "extended in space",
>> 2) the quantum wave in nonphysical, being a resident of
>> the nonphysical world (the world of mind), which has no
>> extension in space.
>> Under these conditions, there is no need
>> to create an additional physical world, since each
>> can exist as aspects of the the same world,
>> one moving in spactime and being physical, the other, like
>> mind, moving simulataneously in the nonphysical world
>> beyond spacetime.
>> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Everything List" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> For more options, visit this group at
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Everything List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> For more options, visit this group at
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Everything List" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit
To post to this group, send email to firstname.lastname@example.org.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
For more options, visit this group at