On 13 Jan 2013, at 01:40, meekerdb wrote:

On 1/12/2013 3:11 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:


On 11 Jan 2013, at 21:47, meekerdb wrote:

On 1/11/2013 10:31 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:

What are its tenets that you believe on faith?

That there is something different from me.

But you have evidence for that - if you can figure out what is meant by "me".

I think you need faith to make data into evidence.

That would vitiate the concept of evidence. I'd say you only need a theory to make data into evidence which can count for or against the theory.

But for making data into evidence, you need to have faith in some theory, even if the data will refute some other theory. It might be unconscious theory used in the brain, and so it might be (and certainly is in most case) an unconscious faith (which is close to my suggestion for consciousness, following Helmholtz theory of perception). There is always implicit theories, and we always need to bet on a reality behind them, to be able to make interpretations.

But you don't have to believe the theory to test it,

You have to believe enough.



you don't need faith in it.

It depends on the applications. If your life can be endangered you need some sort of faith, like with the "yes doctor", or like in taking a plane.





You only need to consider it hypothetically in order to see whether data counts for or against it, i.e. for turning data into evidence. "Betting on" isn't the same as having faith if it's provisional and subject to refutation.

But it becomes faith in comp and quantum suicide, as it involves surviving when the theory is correct or dying when the theory is incorrect.

But you need faith also when you put your feet on the ground, but as I said, we do have faith like that since so long that we forget the act of faith.

Bruno




Brent
“When we come to believe, we have no desire to believe anything else, for we begin by believing that there is nothing else which we have to believe…. I warn people not to seek for anything beyond what they came to believe, for that was all they needed to seek for. In the last resort, however, it is better for you to remain ignorant, for fear that you come to know what you should not know…. Let curiosity give place to faith, and glory to salvation. Let them at least be no hindrance, or let them keep quiet. To know nothing against the Rule [of faith] is to know everything.”
    --- Tertullian

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