On 13 Jan 2013, at 21:13, Richard Ruquist wrote:

On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 1:30 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:

On 12 Jan 2013, at 16:33, Richard Ruquist wrote:

EM waves and fields clearly exist in spacetime. Yet I would classify
them along with quantum waves as part of the quantum mind and
nonphysical.
The photon particle and quantum particles appear to bridge the gap
between the physical and the mind in a mind/body duality or as Roger
puts it, a dual aspect theory.

What I picture is that if everything happens instantly in the quantum
mind, quantum and EM waves can collapse instantly into something the
size of particles so that they may interact with other particles at
the Planck scale.

I think this is a necessary step, a collapse of waves to a particle
size, even for MWI, in order to obtain multiple physical worlds. So it
does not rule out MWI.

But if waves can collapse instantly in the quantum mind, then the
Feynman method of cancelling the infinities of Quantum
Electrodynamics, equivalent to Cramer's Transactional Analysis, can be
used to obtain a single world. The anti-particles that come back
instantly from the future, so to speak, may cancel out all the extra
worlds of MWI.

Now it took some intelligence for Feynman to make his method work. So
I imagine that the quantum mind must possess some form of
consciousness and intelligence to choose which anti-particles are
needed to cancel all the quantum states but one in any
particle-particle interaction. I suspect that the quantum mind in each
of us possesses similar consciousness.

Moreover, I have come to accept the notion of a few consciousness
investigators that consciousness is the energy of the quantum mind. I
base my acceptance on how I focus my own consciousness to accomplish
almost anything. It's like just putting out the energy of
consciousness helps thoughts to emerge. Intelligence and free will may differ from consciousness but such intention can guide consciousness.
Therefore intelligence and free will may have a deeper source.
Richard



I can interprete what you say in the comp MWI interpretations of the
average ideally correct universal machine in arithmetic.
Not yet sure you would agree or appreciate the key role of the "M" (Many
dreams, many worlds, ...).

Bruno


Yes. In some sense the best machine for the best universe.

I accept that the quantum mind instantly computes every MWI possibility,
but see how the quantum mind might choose only the best possibility
to become the single best physical universe.
Richard


What do you mean by "quantum mind"?
keep in mind that with comp we cannot assume the quantum. It is has to be derived from the "digital seen from inside". And I am not sure we can choose the computations we are in, no more than choosing our parents.

Bruno













On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 7:01 AM, Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com >
wrote:

Hi Roger,

How can you have a wave without some notion of spatial/temporal
dimensions?


On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net>
wrote:


Hi everything-list,

I don't believe that Descartes would accept the MWI.
Here's why:

I think that the ManyWorldsInterpretation of QM is incorrect,
due to the mistaken notion (IMHO) that quantum waves
are physical waves, so that everything is physical and materialistic.

This seems to deny "quantum weirdness" observed
in the two-slit experiment. Seemingly if both the wave
and the photon are physical, there should be nothing weird
happening.

My own view is that the weirdness arises because the
waves and the photons are residents of two completely
different but interpenetrating worlds, where:

1) the photon is a resident of the physical world,
where by physical I mean (along with Descartes)
"extended in space",

2) the quantum wave in nonphysical, being a resident of
the nonphysical world (the world of mind), which has no
extension in space.

Under these conditions, there is no need
to create an additional physical world, since each
can exist as aspects of the the same world,
one moving in spactime and being physical, the other, like
mind, moving simulataneously in the nonphysical world
beyond spacetime.

[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
1/12/2013
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen

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