The idea of the end of resources comes from Malthus, but it can be traced
much back in time, to some misconceptions of what is a resource from our
evolutionary past. It is though naturally that a resource is something
produced by the heart, which is not in the hand of the man to fabricate it.
This is due to the fact that the hunter-gatherer clans where we evolved had
no innovation, there were no agriculture nor industry nor cattle, so the
game passed by and the wild vegetables depleted locally and the clans had
to be nomads in permanent search of new resources. Infanticide for lack of
resources and to keep it in manageable number for the movements were common
practice.

Many misconceptions come from this primitive mind: because the resources
are finite, more for me means less for you, because we can no fabricate
plants nor animals.

The refusal to admit that the modern economy is not a zero sum game. The
fact is that we can fabricate plants and animals, and produce new kinds of
energy, and find new resources. Most of the most advanced and valuable
thigs are made with matherials that were worthless before. Petrol only
formed  dangerous swamps for the catle before the combustion engine.  Sand
were just sand before the silicon revolution.

The univese is full of energy materials and space at the disposal of the
human intelligence. At this moment we have not found any contender in the
property rights of the vicinity.

To cry for any foreseeable scacity in the future is .... primitive. We are
hearing these cries since the beginning of humanity.

The coming of an apocalypsis is an innovation of the judaic and christian
mindset that the post-christian sects have inherited.
apocalypse means a time of hope (parousia) and suffering at the en of the
time, that inaugurates a new era. Since Joaquim de Fiore (XIII century) all
the western
movements had a form of another belief on apocalipticism or/and utopic new
age.

This apocalipticism is so deep in the western mindset, that the Naya
prophecy of the end of the world is not so. It is a western
re-interpretation of a no-ending cyclic calendar by western esoterics.

The two reinterpretations: one, the end of the world in 2012 and the other,
the beginning of a new era, are just a direct derivations of the double
interpretation of the Christian apocalypse.


2013/1/17 Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net>

> Hi Telmo Menezes
>
> I think we will run out of fresh water and food before we run out of
> fossil fuels.
> The ocean floors are covered with frozen methyl hydrates, for example.
>
> And there is an unlimited amount of nuclear power.
>
>
> [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
> 1/17/2013
> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen
> ----- Receiving the following content -----
> From: Telmo Menezes
> Receiver: everything-list
> Time: 2013-01-17, 07:02:01
> Subject: Re: The unpredictability of solar energy
>
>
> I'm agnostic about the environmental apocalipse. Producing useful
> scientific theories about complex systems is already a daunting task. When
> the issue is so heavily politicised by both sides, it becomes almost
> impossible. Anyone that has ever done experimental research knows how easy
> it is to lie with statistics and graphs. One would have to study climate
> science for years just to get to the point of being able to have an
> informed opinion. The thing is so ideological now that you can't trust
> anyone to tell you the truth.
>
>
> Is big industry funding a misinformation campaign to protect their
> profits? Sounds plausible.
>
>
> Are?ureaucratic?nti-capitalist "scientists" distorting the facts to
> protect their careers? Sounds plausible.
>
>
>
>
> Things we know for sure: fossil fules are a finite resource. The current
> human population is only possible because of fossil fuel energy. If we
> don't find an alternative, we will eventually face a mass extinction event.
> I'm not sure such an alternative exists, but maybe I'll be proven wrong (at
> least for my 1p) by MWI and QS.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 11:57 AM, Alberto G. Corona  wrote:
>
> Count me as an heretic denialist of the ecological Apocalipsis. The
> Michael Mann hockey stick is a fraud as you can verify in the mails leaked
> in the Climate Research Unit. You must read the mails to have an idea of
> the context in which the global warming?windle?as growth. 90% of the mails
> between climate scientists around the world were related with the need
> for?overnment?oney for department growth. And this includes people of many
> US and EU universitary institutions. ?his is Specially true for the
> experimental data, made most of them by russian scientist in a vanishing
> USSR that desperately needed money from the west.
>
>
>
> http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/08/23/make-your-own-mannian-hockey-stick-at-home/
>
>
>
> ?l Gore (peace upon it), ?he Michael Mann (the merciful and compassionate)
> prophet added still more fallacies. I know that i deserve the hot Hell for
> saying something about the sacred books of IPCC, a political body made of
> power-hungry bureaucrats of sicience, that consistently have denied or
> diminished any other sources of climate influence but anthropogenic CO2,
> but here I am.
>
>
>
>
>
> 2013/1/17 meekerdb
>
> On 1/16/2013 3:54 PM, Stephen P. King wrote:
> On 1/16/2013 1:52 PM, meekerdb wrote:
>
> On 1/16/2013 1:45 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote:
> ? Now the same PR firms are hired by the oil and coal industry to
> obfuscate the problem of global warming.
>
>
>
> And meanwhile we disregard other options out of ideology, namely
> geo-engineering.
>
> They are disregarded not out of ideology; they are disregarded because the
> global warming denial industry has succeeded in obfuscating the science so
> that people think there is great uncertainty about the problem.? Of course
> they are not going to do anything about a problem they are not sure exists,
> and certainly not anything so drastic, and whose consequences are as
> difficult to predict, as geo-engineering.
>
> Brent
>
>
> There are a couple of very interesting proposals on that front that are
> dismissed without proper thought. Global warming can kill us all, but so
> can energy shortage.
>
>
>
> Hi Brent,
>
> ?? Why is it that almost all of the Green proposals are exactly what would
> be required to push civilization back to the Stone age, once implemented
> fully?
>
>
> And those would be what?? Solar power, geo-thermal power, tidal power,
> wind power, liquid thorium reactors - which exactly do you see as stone age
> technology?
>
>
>
> Frankly, I worry more about the impending Ice age which is about over due
> if the cycle that we see in the Vostok icecore data is real.
>
>
>
>
>
> Maybe you wouldn't be so worried if you noticed that CO2 peaked at 300ppm
> on all those warm cycles and it's now at 390ppm and climbing so fast it's
> just a vertical line on the above time scale (unlike the previous cycles).?
> Or maybe you're just part of the denialist industry.
>
> Brent
>
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> --
> Alberto.
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-- 
Alberto.

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