Hi Bruno Marchal 

Just trying to clarify things.

1) OK, I partly understand if we allow words as output. 
But words are descriptions (3p, or Thirdness), 
not experience (1p, or Firstness). 

2) Let us admit for the moment that it is possible 
for a computer to be conscious. What would it be
conscious of ?  The code it is running, which would be
like a stream of consciousness, ie an experience ?




----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: Bruno Marchal 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2013-01-22, 12:00:41
Subject: Re: Escaping from the world of 3p Flatland




On 22 Jan 2013, at 12:36, Roger Clough wrote:


Hi Bruno Marchal 

You said:

"God, matter, consciousness are never computable"

Is that because the above are nonphysical ?  


Matter is physical, by definition, yet non computable. This follows from the UD 
Argument.






If consciousness is not computable, can ideas be computable ?


Yes. Most of them are (the programs, the monads).







I'm totally lost. I don't even understand how ANYTHING other
than numbers can be computable. 


Strings of letter are not number, but the operation of concatenation is 
computable ( a + baba = ababa).
Look at your computer, you see mails, letters, etc. Not number, yet all what 
you do with your computer (like sending a mail) are computable operation.









Suppose you do a computation. You get a number or a bunch of numbers.
How can you say what they mean ? 


By remembering the definitions, the axioms I am assuming, etc. I don't see the 
problem. If you refer to the qualia, this is explain by the peculiarity of the 
logic of machines self-reference: when machine introspect they can understand 
things, without completely understanding the understanding process itself. It 
is normal, but it needs a bot of computer science and mathematical logic to get 
the complete picture.


Bruno




http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/

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