On Wednesday, January 23, 2013 11:11:01 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote:
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> On 22 Jan 2013, at 23:28, Craig Weinberg wrote:
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> On Tuesday, January 22, 2013 4:20:58 PM UTC-5, yanniru wrote:
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>> On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 3:54 PM, Craig Weinberg <whats...@gmail.com> 
>> wrote: 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > On Tuesday, January 22, 2013 3:49:09 PM UTC-5, yanniru wrote: 
>> >> 
>> >> On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 3:38 PM, Craig Weinberg <whats...@gmail.com> 
>> >> wrote: 
>> >> > That doesn't have anything to do with your straw man of my position. 
>> I 
>> >> > have 
>> >> > never once said that existence is contingent upon human 
>> consciousness. I 
>> >> > state again and again that it is experience itself - the capacity 
>> for 
>> >> > sensory-motor participation which is the progenitor of all possible 
>> >> > forms of 
>> >> > 'existence'. Something 'being' means that there is an experience, 
>> >> > otherwise 
>> >> > there is no possibility of anything ever coming into being. 
>> >> 
>> >> However, in a static Block MWI Universe there is no need for time or 
>> >> consciousness or experience. 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > Then in what sense does it 'exist'? 
>>
>> It must be an illusion. Either that or MWI is an illusion. Doesn't 
>> Bruno say that matter is a dream or illusion? Richard 
>>
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> I think MWI and block universe aren't even illusions, they are just ideas 
> to defend mechanism against the fact that reality is only partially 
> mechanistic.
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> Once we assume mechanism, we can explain why reality needs to be only 
> partially mechanistic. 
>

You get the same result by assuming that mechanism only needs to be a part 
of reality.
 

> I think that you are confusing total computable with partial computable. 
> The universality of the Turing machine makes her behavior not total 
> computable. In fact it makes such machine much more a new unknown, that we 
> can invite at the discussion table, than anything like an answer.
>

The new unknown is worth exploring, for sure, but I'm only interested in 
the integrating the realism of our direct experience with our indirect 
scientific understanding. There may indeed be other Turning universes out 
there, or in here, but I don't live in them yet, so I don't care. I would 
care if I could, but my interest in science fiction has waned surprisingly 
in the last 25 years.

Craig


> Bruno
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> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
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