On 23 Jan 2013, at 14:03, Richard Ruquist wrote:
On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 5:05 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>
On 22 Jan 2013, at 18:44, Richard Ruquist wrote:
On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 12:11 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>
You seem to not having yet realize that with comp, not only
wrong, but also weak materialism, that is, the doctrine asserting
primary existence of matter, or the existence of primary matter.
We are, well, not in the matrix, but in infinities of purely
matrices. matter is an appearance from inside.
My point is not that this is true, but that it follows from comp,
computer science makes this enough precise so that we can test it.
Is it possible that the existence of matter from comp as a dream of
Quantum Mind happened once and for all time way back in time?
I am still unsure what you mean by "quantum mind". If by quantum
the usual quantum mechanics, it should appear as the natural view of
arithmetic (numberland, computerland) seen from inside. You can say
mind and matter exist as a view of the (totally atemporal and
number reality. It is time itself which "appears", in a non tempral
but a logical sense, from the elementary number relation. As
might seem, comp makes really a theory like
x + 0 = x
x + s(y) = s(x + y)
x *0 = 0
x*s(y) = x*y + x
((K, x), y) = x
(((S, x), y), z) = ((x, z), (y, z))
into authentical (and equivalent) "theories of everything" (mind,
stuff). The rest are definition and theorems. Those theories are
and even non completeable. If string theory is the correct physics,
has to be derived from the relation above. And I can explain that
more, as we will get the non communicable part of truth too (the
Normally we will go through some steps of this on FOAR. On this
list, I have
explained many things, but the list is too voluminous to search.
It seems that you have avoided my question
by questioning what I mean by quantum mind.
It seems you avoid my question of what you mean by "quantum mind".
Don't quantum mind too much :)
So let me rephrase it.
Could arithmetics produce matter once and for all a long time ago?
The question does not make a clear sense. Arithmetical truth is out of
time and space. Arithmetics is responsible for our own (atemporal
existence), and we create time in it. (making time is the favorite
pastime of the universal numbers).
So in a larger sense I could have answer "yes", in some metaphorical
way. Arithmetic contains all the computations, but only the numbers/
machines are making sense of it, by virtue of their relations with the
Or must the illusion of matter be constantly reinforced by
Not by arithmetic, which is out of time. But matter can be considered
as being reinforced by the "winning" stable and sharable machines'
Normally if you get the UDA1-7, you could already figure out how this
"happens". Arithmetical truth is a sort of block-brains-in-a-vat. For
each possible brain states, there is an infinity, in arithmetic, of
universal machine/number' computations going through that state.
Whatever you predict that "you will live" is given by a "probability-
calculus" on all those histories, making physics a relative
probability calculus on the computations, but only a "seen" by the
(locally self-referentially correct) numbers.
Church thesis makes "all computations" something well defined, and the
incompleteness phenomenon makes those computations terribly redundant,
and this introduces the deepness and the bottom linearity making
consciousness differentiating on long and rich 'normal' (gaussian,
This predicts/explains that once we look below our substitution level,
the physical reality get blurred, as we have to see, somehow, the
trace of the infinity of universal numbers competing to build you a
Seen is defined in arithmetic by p & <>t, and variants. You see a
city, if there is a city in all relative consistent extensions (p),
and there is such a consistent extension (<>t). This provides an
arithmetical quantization, and I conjecture we can program a quantum
computer in it. If we can't, then the concrete existence of a quantum
computer would refute comp + the arithmetical interpretation of the
classical theory of knowledge).
Arithmetic "produces" mind and matter/time, atemporally.
The existence of times and matters in the stable deep dreams of the
universal machines, is a theorem of arithmetic, or of some consistent
extension of arithmetic (made by creature living in arithmetic).
Arithmetic from inside is vastly bigger than arithmetic "seen" from
inside. It is a Löwenheim-Skolem-like phenomenon. Well, that happens
also in "Alice in Wonderland" and in "yellow Submarine" and other
fantasies, reminding us that reality is beyond fiction.
The universes/dreams, taxes, death and beyond included, is but an
attempt by the numbers to understand the numbers.
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