On 23 Jan 2013, at 14:03, Richard Ruquist wrote:

On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 5:05 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:

On 22 Jan 2013, at 18:44, Richard Ruquist wrote:


On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 12:11 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:

You seem to not having yet realize that with comp, not only materialism is wrong, but also weak materialism, that is, the doctrine asserting the
primary existence of matter, or the existence of primary matter.

We are, well, not in the matrix, but in infinities of purely arithmetical
matrices. matter is an appearance from inside.

My point is not that this is true, but that it follows from comp, and that
computer science makes this enough precise so that we can test it.


Bruno,
Is it possible that the existence of matter from comp as a dream of the
Quantum Mind happened once and for all time way back in time?


I am still unsure what you mean by "quantum mind". If by quantum you mean
the usual quantum mechanics, it should appear as the natural view of
arithmetic (numberland, computerland) seen from inside. You can say that mind and matter exist as a view of the (totally atemporal and aspatial) number reality. It is time itself which "appears", in a non tempral sense, but a logical sense, from the elementary number relation. As amazing it
might seem, comp makes really a theory like

x + 0 = x
x + s(y) = s(x + y)

x *0 = 0
x*s(y) = x*y + x

or like

((K, x), y) = x
(((S, x), y), z) = ((x, z), (y, z))

into authentical (and equivalent) "theories of everything" (mind, force and stuff). The rest are definition and theorems. Those theories are complete and even non completeable. If string theory is the correct physics, then it has to be derived from the relation above. And I can explain that we get more, as we will get the non communicable part of truth too (the qualia). Normally we will go through some steps of this on FOAR. On this list, I have
explained many things, but the list is too voluminous to search.

Bruno


It seems that you have avoided my question
by questioning what I mean by quantum mind.

It seems you avoid my question of what you mean by "quantum mind".
Don't quantum mind too much :)


So let me rephrase it.
Could arithmetics produce matter once and for all a long time ago?

The question does not make a clear sense. Arithmetical truth is out of time and space. Arithmetics is responsible for our own (atemporal existence), and we create time in it. (making time is the favorite pastime of the universal numbers).

So in a larger sense I could have answer "yes", in some metaphorical way. Arithmetic contains all the computations, but only the numbers/ machines are making sense of it, by virtue of their relations with the others numbers.



Or must the illusion of matter be constantly reinforced by arithmetics?

Not by arithmetic, which is out of time. But matter can be considered as being reinforced by the "winning" stable and sharable machines' histories/dreams.

Normally if you get the UDA1-7, you could already figure out how this "happens". Arithmetical truth is a sort of block-brains-in-a-vat. For each possible brain states, there is an infinity, in arithmetic, of universal machine/number' computations going through that state. Whatever you predict that "you will live" is given by a "probability- calculus" on all those histories, making physics a relative probability calculus on the computations, but only a "seen" by the (locally self-referentially correct) numbers.

Church thesis makes "all computations" something well defined, and the incompleteness phenomenon makes those computations terribly redundant, and this introduces the deepness and the bottom linearity making consciousness differentiating on long and rich 'normal' (gaussian, boolean) histories.

This predicts/explains that once we look below our substitution level, the physical reality get blurred, as we have to see, somehow, the trace of the infinity of universal numbers competing to build you a consistent extensions.

Seen is defined in arithmetic by []p & <>t, and variants. You see a city, if there is a city in all relative consistent extensions ([]p), and there is such a consistent extension (<>t). This provides an arithmetical quantization, and I conjecture we can program a quantum computer in it. If we can't, then the concrete existence of a quantum computer would refute comp + the arithmetical interpretation of the classical theory of knowledge).

Arithmetic "produces" mind and matter/time, atemporally.

The existence of times and matters in the stable deep dreams of the universal machines, is a theorem of arithmetic, or of some consistent extension of arithmetic (made by creature living in arithmetic). Arithmetic from inside is vastly bigger than arithmetic "seen" from inside. It is a Löwenheim-Skolem-like phenomenon. Well, that happens also in "Alice in Wonderland" and in "yellow Submarine" and other fantasies, reminding us that reality is beyond fiction.

The universes/dreams, taxes, death and beyond included, is but an attempt by the numbers to understand the numbers.
(Assuming computationalism)

Bruno


http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/



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