On 05 Feb 2013, at 19:04, Quentin Anciaux wrote:



2013/2/5 Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>

On 05 Feb 2013, at 18:10, Quentin Anciaux wrote:



2013/2/5 Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>

On 05 Feb 2013, at 14:34, Roger Clough wrote:

Hi meekerdb


There's nothing wrong with science as science.
But a problem arises when you apply the results to theology.

Two completely different worlds.

That's indeed a point where string atheists agree with string christian. Let us try to be not serious on theology, so we can assert the fairy tales. Strong Christian are happy because they feel like they can contradict the scientific evidences, and the atheists are happy so they can continue to mock the christians, and continue to sleep on their own (materialist) dogma.

You put meaning in atheism which is not there... an atheist can perfectly be an idealist... materialism is not part of the definition of atheism.

Definition here are often contradictory. Some years ago, the definition keep changing.

Can you give me the name of an atheist who is idealist?

I would say I am. Computationalism is a sort of idealistic monism.


Perhaps. But you have still to assume enough of arithmetical truth, which plays the role of Plotinus' ONE, that is Plato Parmenidian God. So you believe in God in the greek and/or comp general sense of the term (something responsible for our existence, or ultimate reality, etc.).

Also, it is misleading to describe comp as idealism. Idealism makes all of reality a product of the mind, which in comp is defined in term of number relation that we have to assume at the start. So when we assume arithmetic, we cannot assume it to be a product of the mind, given that we need arithmetic to define the mind.

Bruno






Bruno

Quoting wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

"Metaphysical atheism... includes all doctrines that hold to metaphysical monism (the homogeneity of reality). Metaphysical atheism may be either:

a) absolute — an explicit denial of God's existence associated with materialistic monism (all materialistic trends, both in ancient and modern times);

b) relative — the implicit denial of God in all philosophies that, while they accept the existence of an absolute, conceive of the absolute as not possessing any of the attributes proper to God: transcendence, a personal character or unity. Relative atheism is associated with idealistic monism (pantheism, panentheism, deism)."

Regards,
Quentin





Quentin

That does not give much place for the genuine inquiry, I think.

Bruno




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From: meekerdb
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Time: 2013-02-04, 13:48:50
Subject: Re: Topical combination

On 2/4/2013 7:56 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:

On 03 Feb 2013, at 12:30, Roger Clough wrote:

Hi John Mikes
�
It says
�
"The Fabric of Eternity is the author's personal view of the Universe that allows for science and theology to explore the wonders of creation in peaceful unison.'
IMHO that is completely misguided, because the worlds they understand燼re separate magisteria, to use� Stephan Jay Gould's phrase.� Science deals with the physical world, and theology deals with
the nonphysical world.

Only an Aristotelian can say "science deals with the physical world". This sums up physicalism.

A Platonist says that science is just the modest tool/method to deal with any subject.

Except it was Plato who thought he could understand the world by just thinking about it, while it was Aristotle who went out to observe and let the world teach him.� So who was modest and who was arrogant?

Brent

Allowing the abandon of science in the theological field can only be an invitation to the bad faith in there, and to the "don't ask" mentality.

Bruno

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