On 06 Feb 2013, at 03:38, meekerdb wrote:

On 2/5/2013 9:51 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:


On 05 Feb 2013, at 18:10, Quentin Anciaux wrote:



2013/2/5 Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>

On 05 Feb 2013, at 14:34, Roger Clough wrote:

Hi meekerdb


There's nothing wrong with science as science.
But a problem arises when you apply the results to theology.

Two completely different worlds.

That's indeed a point where string atheists agree with string christian. Let us try to be not serious on theology, so we can assert the fairy tales. Strong Christian are happy because they feel like they can contradict the scientific evidences, and the atheists are happy so they can continue to mock the christians, and continue to sleep on their own (materialist) dogma.

You put meaning in atheism which is not there... an atheist can perfectly be an idealist... materialism is not part of the definition of atheism.

Definition here are often contradictory. Some years ago, the definition keep changing.

Can you give me the name of an atheist who is idealist?

Almost all of them by my definition of a-theist, e.g. Bosanquet, Fichte, McTaggart,...

Fichte was know for his seminar on theology. he got problem when accused of atheism, as some christian put all non christian theology under the name "atheism", but that was a peculiarity of fundamentalist christian. Fichte uses the word God all the time, and, yes, he distinguishes it from the christian God.

You do to me, what the fundamentalist christians did to Fichte, confirming my theory that atheism is christianism, except for some minor nuances.

McTaggart was an Hegelian philosophers who believe that time was an illusion, and that existence was relying on souls and only souls. hardly an atheist, unless again you define atheist by non-believer in the *christian god*.

Bosanquet's philosophy is close to greek Platonism, and ... same remarks.

Note also that they all dies before 1930, and I was thinking of contemporaries.



Of course by your definition, hardly anyone is an atheist

Indeed. All self-referentially correct machine have a theology, whose 3p-logics are given by G* and G.
And this is what leads to Platonist, even Plotinian theology.



since it would be denying there is anything fundamental; something like "It's turtles all the way down."

Indeed,

Bruno



Brent


Bruno




Quentin

That does not give much place for the genuine inquiry, I think.

Bruno




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From: meekerdb
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2013-02-04, 13:48:50
Subject: Re: Topical combination

On 2/4/2013 7:56 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:

On 03 Feb 2013, at 12:30, Roger Clough wrote:

Hi John Mikes
�
It says
�
"The Fabric of Eternity is the author's personal view of the Universe that allows for science and theology to explore the wonders of creation in peaceful unison.'
IMHO that is completely misguided, because the worlds they understand燼re separate magisteria, to use� Stephan Jay Gould's phrase.� Science deals with the physical world, and theology deals with
the nonphysical world.

Only an Aristotelian can say "science deals with the physical world". This sums up physicalism.

A Platonist says that science is just the modest tool/method to deal with any subject.

Except it was Plato who thought he could understand the world by just thinking about it, while it was Aristotle who went out to observe and let the world teach him.� So who was modest and who was arrogant?

Brent

Allowing the abandon of science in the theological field can only be an invitation to the bad faith in there, and to the "don't ask" mentality.

Bruno

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