On 2/9/2013 3:39 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Saturday, February 9, 2013 6:29:54 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote:
On 2/9/2013 3:08 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
> Evolution would have no need for generating values, since values are a
"Subjective motivation" is just a quantitative value seen from the inside.
Why would quantitative values have an inside though? The only reason that we might
presume that is because we are looking at it retrospectively. If you turn it around
though, and assume quantitative mechanisms can exist without awareness, then there is no
possibility of any interior experience being generated. How and why would such a thing
> All evolution would have to do is simply impose a script that assigns a
> protecting ones own children and ones own life.
And that's what happened and that's what you feel as love of life and love
I understand why that makes sense to you, but you are making that up by taking the
undeniable existence of love and drawing a straight line to what you presume,
unquestionably, to be the cause. It's an unfalsifiable misconception which begs the
question. Lets say you wanted to make a computer program that did not feel anything, but
just reproduced and survived. Are you suggesting that is impossible?
Yes. Just like a philosophical zombie is impossible because intelligence entails
consciousness, goals and purposes (like survival) plus intelligence entails values and
Are you saying that whenever a sufficiently complex machine is programmed to avoid
specific conditions that avoidance conjures an experience of pain out of nowhere?
Pain and pleasure.
> Like any computer program, a quantitative equivalence which is
> unconscious would always be more effective.
Unsentimental, maybe. But not unemotional. For example, rage is very
of one's children.
No it isn't. You are only looking at it retrospectively. The effectiveness of rage is
not in the experience of rage, it is in the boost of strength, endurance, aggressive
behavior, etc. All of that could be engineered without inventing some kind of ridiculous
'emotional state' as a theatrical presentation.
That's what you say. But what do you think is an emotional state except the boost in
adrenaline, the focus on objective, etc? You are simply imagining the two can be
separated because you have different words and viewpoints to describe them.
Look at it prospectively instead. You are trying to make an effective replicator. Why
would you ever need to do anything but optimize its behaviors?
You wouldn't, but that would entail it having values and emotions.
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