On 09 Feb 2013, at 22:07, Craig Weinberg wrote:

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On Saturday, February 9, 2013 3:32:52 PM UTC-5, Simon Forman wrote: But then doesn't that leave subjectivity fundamentally mysterious?I think that human subjectivity is a range of qualities ofexperience, some rooted in the sub-personal, some in the super-personal, and some reflected from the impersonal ranges. From thisisland of possible personal sensitivities, the influences arisingfrom beneath, behind, or beyond us does seem mysterious, but from anabsolute perspective, the only thing mysterious is why we shouldassume that it is not fundamental.

`Because we want to explain it from something simpler. That's what make`

`comp interesting, it allows at least the search (and then computer`

`science illustrates that it works indeed).`

Bruno

If form/geometry is first and math second (which fits my own understanding at this time) the what is it that is apprehending math? And does it have form?I wouldn't say that one is first or second to the other, only thatthere is no path from one to the other without the commonality ofthe third - which is personal sense. What it is that apprehends mathand form is, by triangulation, the common opposite of both. Notformless nor irrational, but trans-rational and form-seeking. Ithrow around pretentious terms like Trans-Rational algebras, orapocatastatic gestalts, but what I mean is that we see whole imagesin spite of the disjunct pixels which are presumed to compose them.We jump to conclusions and bridge cognitive gaps, we anticipateteleologically rather than only passively react.Craig ~Simon On 2/9/13, Craig Weinberg <whats...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Saturday, February 9, 2013 1:31:55 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: >> >> On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 Craig Weinberg <whats...@gmail.com >> <javascript:>>wrote: >>>> > If geometry did not exist. Could you invent it withmathematics alone?>>> >>>> Mathematicians have invented geometries of 5, 6, 7, or even ainfinite>> number of dimensions as in Hilbert space even though they have notactile>> >> experience of such things. >> >> I missed it at first, but actually your example makes my pointexactly. If> the universe were primitively arithmetic, it also would notrequire any> tactile experience to support its computations in 1, 2, 3, or four > dimensions. > > This is a great topic for me because even people with very Western> orientations should be able to see that sensory distinctions aremore> primitive than mathematical universalities this way, withoutgetting into> any deep philosophical discussions about subjectivity. The simpleand> unavoidable truth is: Geometry is mathematically impossible.Mathematics> has no power to generate points in space, or lines, shapes,volumes, etc.> > These forms are not mathematical, they are sensory experiences, and> experiences of the visual-tangible channels of public awareness atthat.> You can't get a body out of math, unless you are already expectinga body> to be possible, and you have real bodies to use to projectsimulated bodies> > onto. > > Craig > > --> You received this message because you are subscribed to the GoogleGroups> "Everything List" group.> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,send an> email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com.> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- My blog: http://firequery.blogspot.com/ http://twitter.com/SimonForman http://www.dendritenetwork.com/"The history of mankind for the last four centuries is rather likethat ofan imprisoned sleeper, stirring clumsily and uneasily while theprison thatrestrains and shelters him catches fire, not waking butincorporating thecrackling and warmth of the fire with ancient and incongruousdreams, thanlike that of a man consciously awake to danger and opportunity." --H. P.Wells, "A Short History of the World" --You received this message because you are subscribed to the GoogleGroups "Everything List" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

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