On 2/26/2013 2:41 PM, John Mikes wrote:
Brent:
you jumped into 'counting'. What would that be without numbers?


It's a one-to-one relation between objects. If you invent a special set of tokens (1, 2, 3) that everybody agrees on (i.e. a part of language) to use in the one-to-one relation then those are numbers. But I wasn't pretending to do without numbers; I was pointing out how they derived from experience - they were not just "assumed".

The fact that we see the world as composed of discrete objects (instead of wave functions or quantum fields or something else) might be an accident of the development of this universe - or it might be a necessary consequence of something about universes. I was just asking whether Bruno's comp had any bearing on that question.

Brent


On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 3:40 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net <mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote:

    On 2/26/2013 1:24 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:

    How did number arise? We don't know that, but we can show that if we don't 
assume
    them, or equivalent (basically anything Turing Universal), then we cannot 
derive them.

    I'm not sure how you mean that?  We know that we experience individual 
objects and
    so we can count them by putting them in one-to-one relation with fingers or 
notches
    or marks.  So what are you calling an "assumption" in this?

    Brent
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