On Friday, March 1, 2013 10:58:34 AM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > On 3/1/2013 7:48 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > The point of this thread was to show that even geometry is not at all >> indicated from math or computation, and derives solely from sensory >> experiences of shapes. Can you dispute this? >> >> >> Sure. Can you prove it? >> > > Prove what, that geometry is related to shapes? > > >> >> Computers prove theorems in geometry. >> > > But they don't need geometry to do it. > > >> As Hilbert said geometry could as well be about tables, chairs, and beer >> steins as points, lines, and intersections. >> > > It could be, but it isn't. That's my point. > > > Then you don't have a point. Geometry is nothing more than the axioms and > theorems of geometry. > > Geometry could be about Boolean arithmetic and have no forms at all - > which is obviously the case within a computer which is designed to have no > capacity to render shapes that it can see. > > > Most computers aren't provided with vision or the ability to manipulate > objects in 3-space. Which is why I use Mars rovers as examples of > intelligent, and possibly conscious, machines. They certainly understand > somethings about geometry and they can see shapes. That's how they avoid > running into big rocks. > > You could run the same software the Rover uses in a virtual environment which has no 3-space. If you plugged the Rover's inputs into a random number generator instead of a camera, it would still try to avoid certain kinds of expected patterns in the data, even though there is absolutely no connection to shapes, rocks, geometry, or understanding.

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