On Friday, March 1, 2013 10:58:34 AM UTC-5, Brent wrote:
>
>  On 3/1/2013 7:48 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
>  
>  The point of this thread was to show that even geometry is not at all 
>> indicated from math or computation, and derives solely from sensory 
>> experiences of shapes. Can you dispute this?
>>
>>
>> Sure. Can you prove it?  
>>  
>
> Prove what, that geometry is related to shapes?
>  
>  
>>  
>> Computers prove theorems in geometry.  
>>
>
> But they don't need geometry to do it.
>  
>  
>> As Hilbert said geometry could as well be about tables, chairs, and beer 
>> steins as points, lines, and intersections.
>>  
>
> It could be, but it isn't. That's my point. 
>
>
> Then you don't have a point.  Geometry is nothing more than the axioms and 
> theorems of geometry. 
>
>  Geometry could be about Boolean arithmetic and have no forms at all - 
> which is obviously the case within a computer which is designed to have no 
> capacity to render shapes that it can see.
>  
>
> Most computers aren't provided with vision or the ability to manipulate 
> objects in 3-space.  Which is why I use Mars rovers as examples of 
> intelligent, and possibly conscious, machines.  They certainly understand 
> somethings about geometry and they can see shapes.  That's how they avoid 
> running into big rocks.
>
>
You could run the same software the Rover uses in a virtual environment 
which has no 3-space. If you plugged the Rover's inputs into a random 
number generator instead of a camera, it would still try to avoid certain 
kinds of expected patterns in the data, even though there is absolutely no 
connection to shapes, rocks, geometry, or understanding.

Craig
 

> Brent
>
>  

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