On 01 Mar 2013, at 17:17, Craig Weinberg wrote:

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On Friday, March 1, 2013 10:58:34 AM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 3/1/2013 7:48 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote:The point of this thread was to show that even geometry is not atall indicated from math or computation, and derives solely fromsensory experiences of shapes. Can you dispute this?Sure. Can you prove it? Prove what, that geometry is related to shapes? Computers prove theorems in geometry. But they don't need geometry to do it.As Hilbert said geometry could as well be about tables, chairs, andbeer steins as points, lines, and intersections.It could be, but it isn't. That's my point.Then you don't have a point. Geometry is nothing more than theaxioms and theorems of geometry.Geometry could be about Boolean arithmetic and have no forms at all- which is obviously the case within a computer which is designedto have no capacity to render shapes that it can see.Most computers aren't provided with vision or the ability tomanipulate objects in 3-space. Which is why I use Mars rovers asexamples of intelligent, and possibly conscious, machines. Theycertainly understand somethings about geometry and they can seeshapes. That's how they avoid running into big rocks.You could run the same software the Rover uses in a virtualenvironment which has no 3-space. If you plugged the Rover's inputsinto a random number generator instead of a camera, it would stilltry to avoid certain kinds of expected patterns in the data, eventhough there is absolutely no connection to shapes, rocks,

That would be a Rover's dream

geometry, or understanding.

That's beg the question. Bruno

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