On Thursday, March 7, 2013 4:15:21 PM UTC-5, stathisp wrote:
> On 08/03/2013, at 2:58 AM, Craig Weinberg <whats...@gmail.com<javascript:>> 
> wrote:
>     I must disagree. It is baked into the topology of classical mechanics 
>> that a system cannot semantically act upon itself. There is no way to 
>> define intentionality in classical physics. This is what Bruno proves with 
>> his argument.
> Exactly Stephen. What are we talking about here? How is a deterministic 
> system that has preferences and makes choices and considers options 
> different from free will. If something can have a private preference which 
> cannot be determined from the outside, then it is determined privately, 
> i.e. the will of the private determiner. 
> As I said, it depends on how you define "free will".

How do you think it should be defined?

>  It is also not logically inconsistent with choice and free will,  unless 
>> you define these terms as inconsistent with determinism, in which case in a 
>> deterministic world we would have to create new words meaning pseudo-choice 
>> and pseudo-free will to avoid misunderstanding, and then go about our 
>> business as usual with this minor change to the language.
>>     So you say...
> Yeah, right. Why would a deterministic world need words having anything to 
> do with choice or free will? At what part of a computer program is 
> something like a choice made? Every position on the logic tree is connected 
> to every other by unambiguous prior cause or intentionally generated 
> (pseudo) randomness. It makes no choices, has no preferences, just follows 
> a sequence of instructions.
> In general, the existence of words for something does not mean it has an 
> actual referent; consider "fairy" or "God". 

It's not clear that 'actual' is an actual referent. 

> An adequate response to your position is that you're right - we don't 
> really have choices. Another response is that your definition of "choice" 
> is not the only possible one. 
Another response is "I concede."


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