On 3/7/2013 5:49 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:


On Thursday, March 7, 2013 7:40:31 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote:

    On 3/7/2013 3:05 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:


    On Thursday, March 7, 2013 5:55:02 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote:

        On 3/7/2013 2:49 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:

            To act on itself, as far as I can understand it, would mean to be 
uncaused
            or truly random, which is indeed incompatible with determinism. But 
why
            should that have anything to do with "intentionality"?


        What is intention if not acting on, or better 'through' yourself?

        We use the word "intention" as distinct from acting.


    No, it's an adjective also. We can act intentionally or unintentionally. The
    difference is a key concept in all justice systems in history.

    Yes, and in court evidence of a plan is evidence of intention.


So? Lack of evidence doesn't mean lack of intention in physics, just in court.

    If you picked you a knife in the kitchen and stabbed some one you could 
argue it was
    an accident or an impulse.  If you brought the knife with you, the 
prosecution would
    point out it was evidence of intention.


The action is the last part of the intention. The intention isn't a separate thing from the action. The intention can be an emotion, a thought, a plan, action, etc.


          One might intend to do X but be prevented or change ones mind.  So 
intention
        is having a plan of action with a positive feeling about it, a feeling 
of
        determination.


    You don't need to plan to do something intentionally.

    Sure you do, even if it conceived only moments before the act.  How else 
would you
    distinguish intentional acts from impulsive or accidental?


You distinguish them by recognizing them as originating from your personal will.

Where does you will originate from?

Impulsive acts are intentional to a degree, but what we mean by impulsive is that we did not take the time or have the time to deliberate as carefully as we might have preferred. Maybe only those intentions associates with the limbic system or amygdala were involved and not those of the neocortex.

Hmmm? A hardware distinction determines intentionality?

Accidents is something else entirely. That is an unintentional event, like running over a squirrel. It was not an impulse to kill squirrels. A true impulse to kill squirrels could be intentional and unplanned, and you may only be aware that you are doing it when you find yourself in the middle of the act.




        All of which is compatible with determinism.


    How so? Please explain and give an example.

          The Mars rover probably has an intention to reach it's next sampling 
point.


    There probably is no Mars rover except in our intention to see it that way.

    Oh, so now you're going to deny that Mars rovers exist in order to counter 
my
    example.  What about the refrigerator in my kitchen?  Does it only exist 
because I
    intend it to be a refrigerator?


Yes. Your refrigerator is a little different because you aren't projecting any pathetic fallacy onto it. You are only expecting that there is a box which is kept at a particular temperature, not that it knows if your food is spoiled or not. For the analogy to correspond, you would be telling me that I can't prove that the refrigerator doesn't know if your food is spoiling or not, and that it is prejudice to claim that only humans would know that about the contents of the refrigerator.

My refrigerator isn't very smart, but it knows how cold it is inside and it has a goal which it acts to attain.



What exists in both cases is minimally conscious substances assembled into unconscious mechanisms, performing functions which they are aware of on any level. When the world ends, even though there is no reason to keep the food cold anymore, the refrigerator will go on keeping the former food cold as long as it has power.

The refrigerator has it's reasons which the power knows not.
    --- with apologies to Pascal


Because it's unconscious. The Mars Rover likewise will keep mindlessly reporting its data to an empty Mission Control as long as it can, knowing as little as anything can know. There are atoms that know how to stay in a particular shape and move according to how it is stimulated. Otherwise, there is silence and darkness.

And you will go on claiming that your consciousness depends on conscious atoms even as they are exchanged for different atoms.

Brent


    Do words only mean what you intend them to mean when you want to win 
arguments?


I don't want to win arguments, I want to explain the truth of consciousness. Words mean what we interpret them to mean.

Craig


    Brent



    Craig


        Brent

-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
    "Everything List" group.
    To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
email to
    everything-li...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>.
    To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com 
<javascript:>.
    Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en
    <http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en>.
    For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out
    <https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out>.


    No virus found in this message.
    Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
    Version: 2013.0.2899 / Virus Database: 2641/6154 - Release Date: 03/07/13


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.


No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
Version: 2013.0.2899 / Virus Database: 2641/6154 - Release Date: 03/07/13


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.


Reply via email to