A person can resist their both their environment and genetic programming, but an automatic pilot cannot. Our entire science of genetics proves that we are interested in taking control of our own genetic destiny. > > >> It's not impossible to care. I could care if I have the winning > >> lottery ticket if I know it has been drawn but not yet revealed. > > > > > > Only because you live in a universe where winning the lottery is > meaningful > > for you because it represents the opportunity to amplify your own free > will. > > If there were only determinism, winning the lottery could not possibly > > matter to you. > > The lottery *is* determined, I *know* it's determined, yet I still > care about whether I have won or not. Therefore caring and determinism > are not mutually exclusive. > You care because your values arise from a universe of free will rather than determinism. Caring and determinism are mutually exclusive ontologically, as a square and a circle. Your example is a fallacy, and a glaringly obvious one at that. You can't use examples from the world as it actually is and smuggle them into this made up world which has never existed which is only deterministic or random. > > >> Not at all, the fundamental physics may be the same but in one case a > >> person can assess the situation and change his behaviour while in the > >> other case he can't. The automatic pilot is broken. > > > > > > Under what circumstances is a an automatic pilot legally responsible for > its > > actions? Can an automatic pilot be put in prison for failing at a > critical > > moment? Why not? > > Because its intelligence is extremely limited. Infants aren't put into > prison either for this reason, even though they have free will. When > automatic pilots develop to the point where they can have a normal > conversations with people on a variety of topics then they will > probably be held legally responsible and punished, assuming they are > not so intelligent that they take over to prevent us doing this. > Spoiler alert - that will never happen. In a few decades all of these fantastic overestimates of strong AI will probably be considered charming, like Jules Verne and journeys to the center of the Earth. Putting an automatic pilot in prison will never be an option no matter how sophisticated its simulated intelligence seems to be to us. Prison is meaningless to it because it is not a person with free will. It has no capacity to conceive of freedom or will. Prison is no different from where it always is - which is nowhere. > > >> > No judge could make any judgment against a person if they really > >> > believed > >> > that everything must be determined or random. That would mean that > their > >> > judgments would also be deterministic or random, so that they would > not > >> > be a > >> > judge at all, but rather a pawn of "inevitable and necessary > >> > consequences of > >> > antecedent states of affairs." > >> > > >> > Judgment is impossible under determinism. > >> > >> In that case judges are deluded about making judgements - but it > >> doesn't deter them. > > > > > > Your invisible floating castle has plumbing problems. > > What do you think we would find if we surveyed judges on this topic? > I would think that they would say that they became judges because they believe that determining responsibility is something which only a human being can ultimately do, and that human beings are sometimes the victims of circumstances beyond their control, and other times create problems themselves by their own immoral intentions. Why, do you think that judges would say "My role is irrelevant. I am nothing more than a robot who rubber stamps mindless verdicts as the roll into my mind from my genes and down through the lives of these other meat puppets acting out their own mindless and utterly involuntary scripts."? Craig > > > -- > Stathis Papaioannou > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to firstname.lastname@example.org. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.