On Sunday, March 10, 2013 8:11:25 PM UTC-4, stathisp wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 4:12 AM, Craig Weinberg 
> <whats...@gmail.com<javascript:>> 
> wrote: 
> > No, that would only make sense if people had control of their own 
> actions 
> > independently of your idea of physics. Punishing stones who roll down a 
> hill 
> > is not going to prevent similar rollings from happening in the future. 
> You 
> > do understand this right? Tell me that you can see why punishment 
> requires 
> > voluntary control of one's own actions independently of "physics" to be 
> > effective. 
> You have said in the past that biological processes do *not* go 
> against the laws of physics.

They don't. By definition, everything that actually happens in the universe 
is part of the laws of physics. 

> That would mean it is impossible to have 
> voluntary control of one's actions independently of physics. 

No, it means that physics must support voluntary control of one's actions.

> Now you 
> are saying the opposite. 

Nope. The problem is that you assume that we know a lot about physics 
already. I think that we have an extremely, laughably primitive 
understanding of physics at this point in history. We may be too stupid and 
arrogant to figure that out though. We like to think that the universe 
which we experience is the actual universe when it suits our expectations, 
but we decide that it must be nothing like our experience of the universe 
when it suits other expectations. We are clueless and clueless of how 
clueless we are.


> -- 
> Stathis Papaioannou 

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