On Sunday, March 10, 2013 8:19:21 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote:
>
>  On 3/10/2013 5:08 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
>  
>
>
> On Sunday, March 10, 2013 7:59:11 PM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: 
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 1:16 AM, Craig Weinberg <whats...@gmail.com> 
>> wrote: 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > On Sunday, March 10, 2013 12:16:06 AM UTC-5, Brent wrote: 
>> >> 
>> >> On 3/9/2013 7:38 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: 
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >> A person can resist their both their environment and genetic 
>> programming, 
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >> And you know this how? 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > Because identical twins can intentionally lead very different lives. We 
>> can 
>> > rebel against our parents, we can seek to compensate for genetic 
>> defects. 
>> > What is your basis for denying that we can resist given conditions? 
>>
>> But the twins cannot resist their environment and genetic programming. 
>>
>
> Why not? My nephew was short so he got hormone therapy and isn't short 
> anymore. 
>
>
> Why hormone therapy?  Why didn't he just use his free will to grow taller?
>

Because he is a person, not a muscle cell. By default we have a particular 
range of personal influence..
 

>
>  We have build civilization intentionally. How could a genetic sequence 
> or an external influence cause you to invent television or chocolate chip 
> cookies?
>  
>
> By determining your intentions.
>

Then you are just shunting intention off to another unconscious level. Even 
though we obviously exercise our own will directly and consciously all day 
long, you would rather believe that is an 'illusion' projected by other 
vaguely imagined influences which do have intentions, but somehow 
unconsicously.
 

>
>   
>  
>> The way any system behaves is completely determined by its internal 
>> state and the external influences on it. You seem to believe that 
>> "intention" is somehow due to something other than these two factors, 
>> but what else could it be? 
>>
>
> It is its own factor, 
>
>
> In other words "magic".
>

No more magic than 'internal states' or 'external influences'. States of 
what? Influences of what?
 

>
>  actually the factor upon which internal and external influences 
> supervene. Intention is what is actually being influenced and it is more or 
> less what we experience it to be: the our direct and fully enfranchised 
> participation in our own lives as a person in the world. That doesn't give 
> us complete autonomy, nor does it give us the level of autonomy that we 
> might think we have - because there are other levels of identity and 
> consciousness beyond what we experience as part of what we know we 
> experience, but that you are confusing the complexity of the reality of 
> will with its absence.  
>  
>
> And you're confusing its complexity with magic.
>

Magic is the official go-to straw man of the pseudoskeptic. It just means 
'I have no argument so you must be stupid.'

Craig
 

>
> Brent
>  

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.


Reply via email to