On 12 Mar 2013, at 00:01, meekerdb wrote:
On 3/11/2013 6:27 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 10 Mar 2013, at 22:51, meekerdb wrote:
On 3/10/2013 1:08 PM, spudboy...@aol.com wrote:
Question- I also thought determinism mean't that you could
predict where and when, a particle could move. But that Werner
Heisenberg, said that you could determine, on, but never the
other. Would you say that the universe is predictable and
Heisenberg might be wrong?
Determinism doesn't mean that you can predict everything.
Determinism means the future is completely determined by the
past. But in order to use that for prediction you have to know
the past as well as the time evolution operator. This is
impossible for a couple of reasons. First, you can only know
about the past that is within your past light cone. There are
things happening on the Sun that you can't know about for another
eight minutes. If those are things that can influence what you're
trying to predict then you're out of luck. Second, deterministic
systems are not necessarily stable, so infinitesimal errors in
your knowledge of the present state or in the evolution operator
can result in large errors in prediction. So even if Heisenberg
was wrong (and there's lots of evidence he wasn't and none that
was) the universe still wouldn't be predictable.
.... the universe still wouldn't be predictable, by the observers
What outside is there?
Heaven, Gods, or ... large categories, model of big set theories. With
comp those things might only be machines/numbers' epistemological
tools. but some numbers believe in their absolute existence. Anyway,
it is handy to point on such Gods' eye view or on the point of view of
nowhere, to make a point. No need to make those things basically
ontological, as they do exist on the epistemological plane. from
inside arithmetic, numbers can dream on far bigger things, and even
have to invoke them to figure out the inside structure (like we can
need the complex plane to study the prime number distribution).
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