On Wednesday, March 13, 2013 1:56:00 AM UTC-4, stathisp wrote:
> On 12/03/2013, at 12:30 AM, Craig Weinberg <whats...@gmail.com<javascript:>> 
> wrote: 
> > No, it doesn't make sense to me that there would be a highly valued 
> qualia of free will (and highly charged qualia of responsibility) if our 
> participation did not actually contribute causally in determining the 
> universe. A free spectator in a deterministic machine can feel no 
> responsibility or presence. 
> That many believe something or that something seems true at a gut level 
> does not make it true. 

Sure, but if you understand why the belief has to be true ontologically, 
then it does strongly suggest that it could be true. If you can explain why 
a free spectator in a deterministic machine would feel presence or 
responsibility toward that machine, even though there is no possibility 
that they can change the machine in any way, then I would be interested in 
hearing about that.

> > I was watching a CGI cartoon this morning and was noticing that the 
> sterility of the medium must be fought every step of the way by the 
> animators to inject some warmth and character. The digital medium is not 
> neutral, it is anesthetically biased. Because computation is devoid both of 
> the gravity of realism and the vitality of animation, the CGI animator must 
> compensate with low level visual distractions at all times - plugging the 
> holes in the audience's experience with lots of clever details. 
> A non-CGI movie on a medium such as DVD is digitally encoded so is 
> potentially generable by computer. Indeed, it is generable by a program 
> enumerating all possible movies.

Potentially but not necessarily actually. Copying a photograph pixel by 
pixel is not the same as generating an image. This is at the heart of the 
issue - the recognition of the different levels of quality of consciousness:

Y1. detection: input/output - amplitude/intensity, frequency, 
Y2. sensation: color/tone, attraction/repulsion, association potential
Y3. perception: image, experienced gestalt.
Y4: feeling: episodic awareness, fluid continuum of perceptions.
Y5: awareness: worldly embeddedness, narrative continuity, parallel 
experiences of others.
Y6. consciousness: awareness of self as other, abstract thought and 
Y7: intuition: awareness of synchronicity, symbolic depths, super-personal 
Y8: fusion: identification with the eternal, loss of body identity, 

Information processing is on the opposite axis. Where Y0 is Sense, X0 is 
the opposite - Logic. Logic replaces sense with a structure that can be 
referred to instead of relying on a subject's sensations and feelings. 
Logic is about controlling functions and needs no feelings at all (ask Mr. 
Spock's Dad).

X1. information: low level discernment only - digital universal. Binary 
code. Bits.
X-1. switching: a device used to register and store a discrete, testable 
state of a physical object.
X2.  Meta-data. Grouping of bits into bytes, Kb, Mb, Gb... Copy and paste. 
Sequential analysis.
X-2. Meta-switches. Grouping of devices by division of labor. Routing and 
nesting of functions.
X3. Programs. Logical groupings of functions which are composed 
independently of hardware but executed as data.
X-3. Machines. Devices which compute, route, switch, execute programs 
(silently, invisibly, without experience)
X4. Meta-programs. Self-extending programs which use logic to edit 
themselves. Turing Machines.
X-4. Universal Machines. Devices driven by Meta-programs to modify their 
own hardware (or meta-software in Comp).

That's just a rough run-down of course, my point is only to show that the 
considerations of information are completely perpendicular to those of 
sense. We use logic, we use computation, and computation and logic use us - 
but - we are not computation or logic, we are genuine sensory-motor 
experience which is anchored permanently into the on-and-only, 
authentically and concretely real narrative of eternity.


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