On Wednesday, March 13, 2013 2:00:27 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote:
>
> On 3/13/2013 3:51 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: 
> >   The computer as a whole is 
> > >not a computer at all, it is an animal, a being. In reality, it only 
> looks 
> > >like a computer on the lower levels because it is too distant from our 
> > >personal experience to relate to personally. 
>
> At last Craig admits that a computer can be conscious - but only by not 
> really being a 
> computer at some magic level where it becomes an animal. 
>

No, you misunderstand. Stathis used computer as a metaphor here for a 
person, saying that if any part of the person acts like a machine then 
every part of the person ant the person as a whole must be a machine. I was 
correcting him saying that in fact a person is an animal through and 
through, and it only looks like a machine on the lowest levels because of 
perceptual relativism. A machine cannot ever be human, but we can be 
fooled. A human can act like a machine for a while but it isn't healthy.

Please avoid putting words in my mouth - my position is that computers 
executed on inorganic material are not likely to ever be conscious. They 
can progress on the X axis that I laid out above, but not the Y axis.
 

>
> > It's not a matter of how it 
> > >could possibly happen, it is a matter of how could anyone think that it 
> > >isn't happening. You experience it yourself directly in every moment. 
>
> No you don't, or at least I don't.  I experience many things but I don't 
> experience being 
> determined or not-determined. 
>

If you get food when you are hungry, then you experience yourself being 
determined. If you debate online and decide what you say based on your own 
thoughts rather than the content of neurochemical sites in your brain, then 
you experience being not-determined. 

Craig
 

>
> Brent 
>

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