On 3/13/2013 3:32 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:

On Wednesday, March 13, 2013 2:00:27 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote:

    On 3/13/2013 3:51 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
    >   The computer as a whole is
    > >not a computer at all, it is an animal, a being. In reality, it only 
    > >like a computer on the lower levels because it is too distant from our
    > >personal experience to relate to personally.

    At last Craig admits that a computer can be conscious - but only by not 
really being a
    computer at some magic level where it becomes an animal.

No, you misunderstand. Stathis used computer as a metaphor here for a person, saying that if any part of the person acts like a machine then every part of the person ant the person as a whole must be a machine. I was correcting him saying that in fact a person is an animal through and through, and it only looks like a machine on the lowest levels because of perceptual relativism. A machine cannot ever be human,

So you say.

but we can be fooled.

How do you're not already fooled; that what you take to be humans beings really are computers - including yourself?

A human can act like a machine for a while but it isn't healthy.

Please avoid putting words in my mouth -

The above was a direct quote extracted from your email.

my position is that computers executed on inorganic material are not likely to ever be conscious. They can progress on the X axis that I laid out above, but not the Y axis.

    > It's not a matter of how it
    > >could possibly happen, it is a matter of how could anyone think that it
    > >isn't happening. You experience it yourself directly in every moment.

    No you don't, or at least I don't.  I experience many things but I don't 
    determined or not-determined.

If you get food when you are hungry, then you experience yourself being 

And what if I don't get food because I want to be slimmer.  Is that *not* 

If you debate online and decide what you say based on your own thoughts rather than the content of neurochemical sites in your brain, then you experience being not-determined.

Are you claiming "my own thoughts" are distinct from the neurochemistry of my 

The first principle of science is don't fool yourself - and you
are the easiest person to fool.
      --- Richard Feynman

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