The Penrose incomputability issue may be reformulated into a fundamental 

Is the universe a closed system ? Is materialism logically possible ?
Can the observer be part of the measurement ?


The issue of whether the universe is a closed system is raised  
and immediately dismissed:

".1 Extending the Formalism  
Gell-Mann and Hartle independently developed a consistent history formalism  
as a transformation of Feynman's sum-over-histories formulation  
. Quantum  cosmology, their concern, requires a quantum mechanical treatment of 
systems. The universe does not admit of an outside observer.   "

But it seems to me to be impossible to make a measurment if the
observer is part of the sytem being measured. Similarly Aristotle
long ago pointed out the impossibility of universal causation, for 
every cause must have a cause, leading to an infinite regression
of causes.

And so forth. Similarly Consciousness and perception require an observe which is
not part of the system, for conscious ness = subject + object.
Again,, there is the singularity problem of creation. And the uncomfortable 
that creatiion requires a Creator.

r. Roger Clough NIST (ret.) 3/23/2013   
"Coincidences are God's way of remaining anonymous."  
- Albert Einstein

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
To post to this group, send email to
Visit this group at
For more options, visit

Reply via email to