On Sunday, April 7, 2013 2:54:08 AM UTC-4, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:
>
> On 07.04.2013 02:40 Craig Weinberg said the following: 
> > Ok, here's my modified version of Fig 11 
> > 
> > http://multisenserealism.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/33ost_diagram.jpg 
> > 
>
> I believe that you have understood the paper wrong. The authors 
> literally believe that the observed 3D world is geometrically speaking 
> in the brain. 
>

I didn't read the paper yet, I just thought the diagram was a good basis 
for a MR diagram.
 

>
> See for example 
>
> Section 3. Space and time in mind, 3.1. Phenomenal space 
>
> �As it was pointed Smythies [333] this phenomenal space may be identical 
> with some aspect of brain space but not with any aspect of external 
> physical space. The same idea was explicitly formulated by Searle [334]: 
> �The brain creates a body image, and pains, like all bodily sensations, 
> are parts of the body image.  The pain-in-the-foot is literally in the 
> physical space of the brain.�� 
>
> This immediately leads to Max Velmans paradox {"The real skull (as 
> opposed to the phenomenal skull) is beyond the perceived horizon and 
> dome of the sky."}, see 
>
> http://blog.rudnyi.ru/2012/05/brain-and-world.html 
>
> and to some further possible speculations like 
>
> 'Another researcher, Kuhlenbeck [335] made an even stronger claim, 
> suggesting that "... physical events and mental events occur in 
> different space-time systems which have no dimensions in common." 
>

Eh, I don't think it makes sense or explains anything to map consciousness 
to a matrix of positions. What does a flavor or a smell have to do with a 
location or shape? To me its pretty obviously our own species' visual bias 
which compels us to conceive of reality in visual terms. In comparing 
visual phenomena to sensory experience in general, I can understand visual 
shapes and tangible objects as categories of experience but experiences 
such as taste or emotion cannot be configurations of objects. I don't think 
that there is any way possible of getting around that, as it seems as self 
evident as the impossibility of a square circle. Objects can be dreamed of 
subjectively or imagined, but subjects cannot appear out of the 
interactions of gears, regardless of how many gears there are.

Craig

 

>
> Evgenii 
>
> > 
> > On Saturday, April 6, 2013 1:45:12 PM UTC-4, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: 
> >> 
> >> Fingelkurts, A., Fingelkurts, A., and Neves, C. (2010). �Natural 
> >> World Physical, Brain Operational, and Mind Phenomenal Space-Time�. 
> >> *Physics of Life Reviews* 7(2): 195-249. 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> http://scireprints.lu.lv/141/1/Fingelkurts_Space-time_in_Physics_brain_and_mind.pdf
>  
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> �We would like to discuss the hypothesis that via the brain operational 
> >> space-time the mind subjective space-time is connected to 
> >> otherwise distant physical space-time reality.� 
> >> 
> >> See Fig 11 where the phenomenal world is in the brain. 
> >> 
> >> Evgenii 
> >> 
> > 
>
>

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