On 08.04.2013 11:38 Bruno Marchal said the following:

On 07 Apr 2013, at 19:20, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:

On 07.04.2013 19:12 meekerdb said the following:
On 4/6/2013 11:54 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:
On 07.04.2013 02:40 Craig Weinberg said the following:
Ok, here's my modified version of Fig 11

http://multisenserealism.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/33ost_diagram.jpg





I believe that you have understood the paper wrong. The authors
literally believe that the observed 3D world is geometrically
speaking in the brain.

Yes our 3d model of the world is in our minds (not our brains).
It's not "there" geometrically speaking.  Geometry and "there"
are part of the model.  Dog bites man.

Well, if you look into the paper, you see that authors take it
literally as in neuroscience mind means brain. Mind belongs to
philosophy.


But mind is different from brain. And mind is part of both cognitive
 science and theoretical computer science. To identify mind and brain
is possible in some strong non computationalist theories, but such
theories don't yet exist, and are only speculated about. To confuse
mind and brain, is like confusing literature and ink. Neurophilophers
are usually computationalist and weakly materialist, and so are
basically inconsistent.

I guess, this is a way how science develops. Neuroscientists study brain and they just take a priori from the materialist and reductionism paradigm that mind must be in the brain. After that, they write papers to bring this idea to the logical conclusion. To this end, they seem to have two options. Either they should say that the 3D visual world is illusion (I guess, Dennett goes this way) or put phenomenological consciousness into the brain. Let us see what happens along this way.

The paper in a way is well written. The only flaw (that actually is irrelevant to the content of the paper) that I have seen in it, is THE ENTROPY. Biologists like the entropy so much that they use it in any occasion. For example from the paper:

“Thus, changes in entropy provide an important window into self-organization: a sudden increase of entropy just before the emergence of a new structure, followed by brief period of negative entropy (or negentropy).”

I have seen that this could be traced to Schrödinger’s What is Life?, reread his chapter on Order, Disorder and Entropy and made my comments

http://blog.rudnyi.ru/2013/04/schrodinger-disorder-and-entropy.html

Evgenii

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