On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 01:41:07PM +0200, Bruno Marchal wrote:
> 
> On 16 Apr 2013, at 04:14, Russell Standish wrote:
> 
> >On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 02:41:19PM +0200, Bruno Marchal wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>You cannot be more right on this. It has been part of my job to show
> >>that if the brain is Turing emulable, then the interior experience
> >>is not at all isomorphic to brain activity. It is already done
> >>explicitely in step seven (you don't need the more subtle step 8).
> >>
> >
> >If you have shown this, then empirically, COMP is falsified.
> 
> Why?
> Only if you still believe in primitive material brain. But the point
> is that does not exist primitively.
> 

This has nothing to do with "primitiveness". Stick an fMRI scanner on
your brain, and think some thoughts. You will find you cannot have a
different thought without different brain activity. Moreover, there
appears to be a quite close correspondence, viz experiments where
computers are taught to read someone's mind. The experiments are
getting better over time - I would say its pretty overwhelming
evidence that mind supervenes on (phenomenal) physical matter
(particularly the brain).

Furthermore, the anthropic principle is completely unexplainable with
some sort of "phenomenal" physical supervenience.

> 
> 
> 
> >However,
> >you yourself, have stated that all that is shown is that the brain
> >(and physics generally) cannot be ontologically primitive.
> 
> Yes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >
> >We're getting close to the latter (on foar) - if we can find a way of
> >expressing the MGA that doesn't rely on an intuition.
> 
> All proofs and theories relies on some intuition and common sense.

Only in setting the axioms. You're allowed to argue with an axiom, of
course, but that does not invalidate a proof.

> 
> Common sense is the only tool that we have to go beyond common sense.
> 
> But where you think I did use intuition, I was using only the
> definition of comp. See my preceding posts.
> 

Primarily where you assert that conscious states supervening on
recordings are an absurdity. There are some other places where
intuition has cropped up, but that seems to be the main one.
 

-- 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Prof Russell Standish                  Phone 0425 253119 (mobile)
Principal, High Performance Coders
Visiting Professor of Mathematics      hpco...@hpcoders.com.au
University of New South Wales          http://www.hpcoders.com.au
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