On Wednesday, April 17, 2013 11:02:30 AM UTC-4, Alberto G.Corona wrote:
>
> Animal psychology is clearly adaptive. No one denies that.
>

Animal behavior is adaptive, but that doesn't mean that psychology follows 
only from behavior. Psychology is a private aesthetic agenda which overlaps 
with adaptation to public conditions, but causality flows in both 
directions.
 

> Then is is very strange to know that many people denies any influence of 
> evolution in human psychology. 
>

Influence is one thing, supervenience is another. Of course evolution 
influences human psychology, but human psychology is not an emergent 
property of evolution alone.
 

> Specially when they deny any particular quality to humans that distinguish 
> them from animals.
>

There are thousands of qualities which distinguish H.sapiens from other 
animals.
 

>  
> A pure cultural theory of human psychology is against natural selection, 
> and even against the notion of computability. 
>

It's not against natural selection or computability, but it does make them 
some pieces of the puzzle rather than the entire thing. The universe has 
aesthetic agendas and anesthetic consequences. If we look at it through the 
anesthetic lens, then the evidence will appear to 'fill in' for the 
aesthetic truth which we have amputated. Just as our eyes fill in our 
visual blindspot, the entire universe does that, and is made out of the 
capacity to do that. This is the core proposition of my view. 
Computationalism is a self-fulfilling perspective, as is evolutionary 
biology, materialism, or theology. All describe the whole in the reduced 
terms of a part.
 

> There is no computer that solve problems without loading a program. The 
> pogram is what is innate. the input data is te environment (social and 
> phisical) whose problems has to solve.
>

Before a program can load, there has to be a capacity to program, an 
expectation of running, a universe to run it in, a user to appreciate that 
it is running, etc. This is already sense and participation. Human quality 
consciousness is indeed elaborate and rich, but it is an elaboration of 
simpler forms of sensory-motor experiences, *not* anesthetic mechanisms. 
Mechanisms are like a trellis to help the vines of experience proliferate 
and thrive. There is no justification for the trellis without the vines, 
and no vines can come from the trellis.
 

>  
> Craig: you can read about your objections and other in the article of the 
> Wikipedia:
>  
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychoevolutionary_theory
>

I'll check it out. Thanks.

Craig
 

>
>
> 2013/4/17 Craig Weinberg <whats...@gmail.com <javascript:>>
>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 16, 2013 6:20:42 PM UTC-4, Alberto G.Corona wrote:
>>>
>>> Evolutionary psychology are falsable because there are psychological 
>>> experiments that can be designed to falsaify them. There a lot of them in 
>>> the literature. All of them are standard methods in psychology. Evolution 
>>> here is only the theoretical framework that allows to formulaate 
>>> psychological hypothesis. Then it is tested like any other psychological 
>>> hypothesis. 
>>>
>>> There are interviews. respose time measurements . Card tests. Statstical 
>>> analysis. Crooss culture studies.etc. while other methods are specific like 
>>> game theory. Computer simulations  Hunter'gatherer studies Etc.  There is a 
>>> experimental test of an hypothesized instintive mechanism for pumishmemt of 
>>> free riders and another for giving advantages to collaboorators by Price 
>>> Cosmides. And Toby refered in my article. You can take a look at it.
>>>
>>
>> I agree that the evolutionary aspect is falsifiable, I just think that 
>> the link to psychology is always a fictional inference which is 
>> self-validating. We might see a meaningful pattern of behavior in 
>> individuals and societies, but seeing that pattern from the outside leads 
>> to impose a mechanical view onto subjective experiences, which we should 
>> know are driven by aesthetic and intentional considerations as well as 
>> survival and reproduction.
>>
>> Craig
>>
>>>  By the way mi article suggest various experimental tests
>>> El 16/04/2013 22:42, "Craig Weinberg" <whats...@gmail.com> escribió:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, April 16, 2013 3:26:11 PM UTC-4, Alberto G.Corona wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> It depends on the circunstances'. If you read the article i guess that 
>>>>> you will agree. But the thesis is that these moral intuitions are 
>>>>> erroneous 
>>>>> in modern societies and have a strong bias against succeesful people in 
>>>>> any 
>>>>> circunstance because these moral evaluations evolved in small tribal 
>>>>> societies where everyone knew the merits of everyone else in detail
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Evolutionary psychology is unfalsifiable, and in this case I think 
>>>> plainly used for an ideological purpose. By erroneously framing the 
>>>> concept 
>>>> of social justice as rooted in envy to begin with, and then applying this 
>>>> pseudo-scientific validation of that error, the point is to say "Liberals 
>>>> are just jealous, and that's because they carry an evolutionary defect."
>>>>
>>>> What about all of the people who think that imperialism and 
>>>> aristocratic totalitarianism are perfectly fine? How did they escape this 
>>>> selection pressure?
>>>>
>>>> Craig
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>> El 16/04/2013 20:48, "Craig Weinberg" <whats...@gmail.com> escribió:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tuesday, April 16, 2013 1:44:57 PM UTC-4, Alberto G.Corona wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sucessful in this context is someone that is in better conditions to 
>>>>>>> have offspring whatever the means. This describes how the moral 
>>>>>>> intuitions 
>>>>>>> -like yours- are ellaborated in order to punish them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't think that it is punishment to protect civilization from 
>>>>>> unchecked exploitation. Think of it as crime prevention after the fact. 
>>>>>> It's not about envy, it is about reducing threats to the common good.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Craig
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> El 15/04/2013 14:10, "Craig Weinberg" <whats...@gmail.com> escribió:
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > On Monday, April 15, 2013 5:56:31 AM UTC-4, Alberto G.Corona wrote:
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> This is thread is completely off-topic, but anyway: 
>>>>>>> >>  
>>>>>>> >> The evolutionary roots of envy and social justice:
>>>>>>> >>  
>>>>>>> >> http://www.scribd.com/doc/**9389****0864/Punitive-sentiment-**
>>>>>>> agains****t-successful-**individuals-as-a-******
>>>>>>> psychological-device-for-anti-******hidden-free-riders-in-**ancestra
>>>>>>> ****l-hunter-gatherers<http://www.scribd.com/doc/93890864/Punitive-sentiment-against-successful-individuals-as-a-psychological-device-for-anti-hidden-free-riders-in-ancestral-hunter-gatherers>
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > What is "successful" about an heir to a dynastic fortune or the 
>>>>>>> beneficiary of some arbitrary condition of exploitation?
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Craig
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> 2013/4/14 Craig Weinberg <whats...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> On Sunday, April 14, 2013 7:56:35 AM UTC-4, Roger Clough wrote:
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> One of the great mysteries of liberalism
>>>>>>> >>>> is the contradiction in its political stance
>>>>>>> >>>> concerning rich corporations.
>>>>>>> >>>>  
>>>>>>> >>>> On the one hand, it rejects the attempts of conservatives
>>>>>>> >>>> to lower corporate taxes.
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> Liberals see that wealth inequality is a critically important 
>>>>>>> issue in the US.
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> “For every one dollar of assets owned by a single black or 
>>>>>>> Hispanic woman, a member of the Forbes 400 has over forty million 
>>>>>>> dollars.”
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> America Split in Two: Five Ugly Extremes of Inequality 
>>>>>>> http://truth-out.org/**buzzflash****/commentary/item/**17878-**
>>>>>>> america**-split-in-two-**five-**ugly-**extremes-of-**inequality<http://truth-out.org/buzzflash/commentary/item/17878-america-split-in-two-five-ugly-extremes-of-inequality>
>>>>>>> >>>  
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> But on the other hand, it
>>>>>>> >>>> will bail out rich corporations such as General Motors
>>>>>>> >>>> to prevent their failure. 
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> Whoever is in power is going to support big bailouts, as the 
>>>>>>> conservatives proved in 2004 when they supported TARP. 
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> "Nearly half of Americans incorrectly think President Obama 
>>>>>>> started the the bank bailout program, otherwise known as the Troubled 
>>>>>>> Asset 
>>>>>>> Relief Program (TARP), a new poll shows.
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> Just 34 percent of Americans surveyed by the Pew Research Center 
>>>>>>> correctly said that TARP was enacted by the Bush administration. Almost 
>>>>>>> half -- 47 percent -- think Mr. Obama started the bank bailout, 
>>>>>>> according 
>>>>>>> to the survey, conducted July 1-5. There was no partisan divide on the 
>>>>>>> issue." - http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-**50****
>>>>>>> 3544_162-20013452-503544.**html<http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20013452-503544.html>
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> Craig
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>>>  
>>>>>>> >>>> How's that again ?
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>>  
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>  
>>>>>>> >>>>  
>>>>>>> >>>> Dr. Roger Clough NIST (ret.) 4/14/2013
>>>>>>> >>>> http://team.academia.edu/**Roger****Clough<http://team.academia.edu/RogerClough>
>>>>>>> >>>
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>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> -- 
>>>>>>> >> Alberto.
>>>>>>> >
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>
>
>
> -- 
> Alberto. 
>

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