On Friday, April 19, 2013 9:49:35 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>
>
> On 18 Apr 2013, at 14:01, Craig Weinberg wrote:
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>
>
> On Thursday, April 18, 2013 5:42:21 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 17 Apr 2013, at 19:09, John Clark wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 17, 2013  Bruno Marchal <mar...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>
>> > It is more easy to see the irrationality of others than of oneself 
>>> apparently.
>>>
>>
>> In general that is certainly true but Bruno let me ask you a very serious 
>> question, doesn't all this astrology stuff bother you and make you question 
>> how you allocate your time? Doesn't it bother you to learn that Craig 
>> Weinberg, somebody you have spent a lot of effort debating with, would say 
>> things like  "embody the Aquarian tension of revolutionary rationalism 
>> symbolized by the Saturnian-Uranian co-rulership of Aquarius." and "With 
>> their interesting combination of Mars in Libra squaring their Moon and 
>> trining their Sun" and  "The Neptune Saturn conjunction with the Jupiter 
>> stellium in Neptune-ruled Pisce" and  "There is nothing in numerology or 
>> astrology which is even remotely as flaky as modern cosmology."  and  
>> "Astrology is extremely rational" ?  I've got to tell you that finding out 
>> that I have misjudged somebody that massively bothers the hell out of me.
>>
>>
>> I agree with you. But Craig made a lot of invalid arguments well before 
>> this gross statements. As a teacher I am used to bet that crank can 
>> progress, so when an argument is invalid I make the correction. I know that 
>> some people cannot listen, but I keep hope, basically because that's my job.
>>
>> His argument for astrology was isomorphic to the main argument in favor 
>> of drug prohibition. Basically a confusion between p->q and q->p. Everyday 
>> that error appears in media, news, etc., be it on terrorism, drug, 
>> religion, etc.  I can't help to denounce it wherever it appears.
>>
>
> When have I ever argued in favor of drug prohibition? Are you confusing me 
> with one of the Right-Wingers?
>
>
> When and where did I ever argue that you were in favor of drug prohibition?
>
> I as just saying that your argument in favor of astrology contained the 
> same logical mistake than the one which figure in basically all papers in 
> favor of prohibition. I did reply and explain at that time.
>

Oh, sorry, I read it as 'my' argument for drug prohibition. Must be the 
drugs ;) 


> You do a lot of mistake in logic.
>

Maybe. But that may not be important. That might be an irrelevant 
distraction to an underlying thesis which is sound.
 

> You take special sample and conclude from that. Today you said once 
> again: "No computer I have ever worked on has ever been conscious of 
> anything that it is doing. ...", like if that was an argument against the 
> idea that a computer *can* support some experience.
>

The only reason that I argue that a computer cannot support experience, is 
because experience is not based on something other than itself. I don't 
take the fact that computers are not conscious as an argument that they 
can't be, only that it should be a clue to us that there is something 
fundamentally different about logic circuits then zygotes. 

I have gone over the reason why computers qua computers will never have 
experiences many times - it is because the map is not the territory. 
Computation is devoid of aesthetics and consciousness is 100% aesthetic. It 
assumes awareness the wrong way around, as a product of nonsense or a fixed 
uniformity of sense rather than the eternal fertility of aesthetic sense. 
We do run on machines, and we run machines, but machines run on sense.


> That is not a valid argument.
>

I would agree, but that wasn't my argument.

Craig
 

>
> Bruno
>
>
>
> Craig
>  
>
>>
>> Bruno
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>   John K Clark
>>
>>
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