On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 9:39 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
>
> On 13 May 2013, at 18:29, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:
>
>> On 13.05.2013 17:41 Telmo Menezes said the following:
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi <use...@rudnyi.ru>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Recently I have listened to a nice talk about the search of
>>>> extraterrestrial intelligence
>>>>
>>>> http://embryogenesisexplained.com/2013/03/the-starivore-hypothesis.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>> The author has mentioned two fallacies (slides 6 and 7)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Artificiality-of-the-gaps
>>>>
>>>> and
>>>>
>>>> Naturality-of-the-gaps
>>>>
>>>> However, I was unable to understand his difference between
>>>> artificial and natural.
>>>
>>>
>>> I believe he just means "generated by an intelligent biological
>>> entity" vs "generated directly by nature". UFOs, the New York City
>>> and burritos are artificial in this sense, while Clouds, the Grand
>>> Canyon and apples are not.
>>>
>>> He's then specifically alluding to the fallacy of assuming that
>>> extra-terrestrial intelligent entities would be sufficiently similar
>>> to us for us to notice them (an old but interesting debate).
>>
>>
>> Yes, but my point was to take this just as a starting point to ask
>> ourselves how we distinguish what is artificial and what is natural.
>>
>> The author failed to make definitions for artificial and natural. Could
>> you define these terms?
>
>
> The difference between natural and artificial is ... artificial.
>
> And thus it is natural ... for creatures which are developing some ego.
> "artificial" is a human indexical. Even with comp, we are part of nature. I
> think.

Yes, I agree with this.

The distinction is useful to simply qualify something as being the
product of human engineering (as in "Artificial Intelligence"). The
search for ETs, interestingly, forces the distinction into an
uncomfortable territory, because it's now "the product of some
intelligence's engineering". We have no way of knowing the full
spectrum of possibilities for alternative biologies, so we can never
be sure if, for example, a signal we receive from outer space is
"natural" or "artificial". Or can we?

Telmo.

> Bruno
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> Evgenii
>>
>>> Telmo.
>>>
>>>> It might be this is a good chance to look from another perspective
>>>> on an ASCII string that has no meaning for John Clark. Could we
>>>> find the difference between natural and artificial if we say that a
>>>> term "free will" is meaningless?
>>>>
>>>> Evgenii --
>>>> http://blog.rudnyi.ru/2013/03/natural-vs-artificial.html
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>
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>
> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
>
>
>
>
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