On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 3:39 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:

>
> On 13 May 2013, at 18:29, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:
>
>  On 13.05.2013 17:41 Telmo Menezes said the following:
>>
>>> On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi <use...@rudnyi.ru>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Recently I have listened to a nice talk about the search of
>>>> extraterrestrial intelligence
>>>>
>>>> http://embryogenesisexplained.**com/2013/03/the-starivore-**
>>>> hypothesis.html<http://embryogenesisexplained.com/2013/03/the-starivore-hypothesis.html>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  The author has mentioned two fallacies (slides 6 and 7)
>>
>>>
>>>> Artificiality-of-the-gaps
>>>>
>>>> and
>>>>
>>>> Naturality-of-the-gaps
>>>>
>>>> However, I was unable to understand his difference between
>>>> artificial and natural.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I believe he just means "generated by an intelligent biological
>>> entity" vs "generated directly by nature". UFOs, the New York City
>>> and burritos are artificial in this sense, while Clouds, the Grand
>>> Canyon and apples are not.
>>>
>>> He's then specifically alluding to the fallacy of assuming that
>>> extra-terrestrial intelligent entities would be sufficiently similar
>>> to us for us to notice them (an old but interesting debate).
>>>
>>
>> Yes, but my point was to take this just as a starting point to ask
>> ourselves how we distinguish what is artificial and what is natural.
>>
>> The author failed to make definitions for artificial and natural. Could
>> you define these terms?
>>
>
> * The difference between natural and artificial is ... artificial.
>
> And thus it is natural ... for creatures which are developing some ego.
> "artificial" is a human indexical. Even with comp, we are part of nature.
> I think.
>
> Bruno*


Beautiful, Bruno.
If I may add: I would call "NATURAL" also :ARTIFICIAL, because the way WE
look at Nature is the way WE LOOK AT NATURE. Would you include that into
artificial, too?
JOhn M




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