On 18 May 2013, at 13:31, Alberto G. Corona wrote:

Why people do not include the original link in their mails is something I can not understand

This is the article where the text was extracted:

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/?p=155740

The most interesting thing is at the end:
It reports a pacient resucitated after 40 minutes from a cooling state:

Parnia: I wasn’t involved in his care when he arrived at the hospital, but I know his doctors well. We’d been working with the emergency room to make sure they knew the importance of starting to cool people down. When Tiralosi arrived, they cooled him, which helped preserve his brain cells. They found vessels blocked in his heart. That’s now treatable. By doing CPR and cooling him down, the doctors managed to fix him and ensure that he didn’t have brain damage.

When Tiralosi woke up, he told nurses that he had a profound experience and wanted to talk about it. That’s how we met. He told me that he felt incredibly peaceful, and saw this perfect being, full of love and compassion. This is not uncommon.

People tend to interpret what they see based on their background: A Hindu describes a Hindu god, an atheist doesn’t see a Hindu god or a Christian god, but some being. Different cultures see the same thing, but their interpretation depends on what they believe.


The last paragraph is in accordance with what I predict from my natural selection-based hypothesis (expressed a few threads before).

http://www.mail-archive.com/everything-list@googlegroups.com/msg37408.html

Either if this is a genuine return of the soul to the body or not, what is undisputable is the existence of the phenomenon and for me, there is clear the coherence between what traditional religious wishdom say and the evolutionary hypotheses.

My standpoint is  1)We don not know,

Good :)




2) traditional wishdom know something that we do not know.

I am not sure of that. One guy see the point, perhaps, and the disciples repeat without personal understanding, and the tradition can betray completely the original message. Of course some "good" tradition can exist, but they will not transmit any messages, but a set of techniques for helping the people to get the personal understanding and/or illumination. But even here, some tradition can transform itself into a bunch of superstitions, confusing the technique as a mean with the technique as a goal. Traditional wisdom can be beneficial, but it is always near traditional bullshit, if I may say.





3) Even if you think that traditional wishdom don´t know exactly what happens, we should learn from it.

This I agree, if only this can be done with a critical mind. All questions should be permitted, and all doubts should be heard, on any point.




4)To reject the latter is a betrayal of scientific enquiry.

Absolutely.





The knowledge of the past is not the result of what a bunch of idiots have said until we, the Illuminated arrived, but the result of deep discussions and confrontations of ideas, experiences and worldviews.

OK.

Bruno






2013/5/17 Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net>
Hi Art Funkhouser

The documented fact that people have had "near death"
experiences after death,  after electrical activity in the brain
ceases suggests to me at least that  the mind does not
need the brain to function.

This is also suggested by "out of the body" experiences

Dr. Roger Clough NIST (ret.) 5/17/2013
See my Leibniz site at
http://team.academia.edu/RogerClough


----- Receiving the following content -----
From:  Art Funkhouser
Receiver:  undisclosed-recipients:
Time: 2013-05-16, 09:33:59
Subject: [Mind and Brain] Consciousness after Death: Strange Tales From theFrontiers of Resuscitation Medicine




>Consciousness after Death: Strange Tales From the Frontiers of
>Resuscitation Medicine -- (Wired -- April 24, 2013)
>
>
>Sam Parnia practices resuscitation medicine. In other words, he helps
>bring people back from the dead --- and some return with stories. Their >tales could help save lives, and even challenge traditional scientific >ideas about the nature of consciousness. "The evidence we have so far is
>that human consciousness does not become annihilated," said Parnia, a
>doctor at Stony Brook University Hospital and director of the school's
>resuscitation research program. "It continues for a few hours after
>death, albeit in a hibernated state we cannot see from the outside."
>Resuscitation medicine grew out of the mid-twentieth century discovery >of CPR, the medical procedure by which hearts that have stopped beating
>are revived. Originally effective for a few minutes after cardiac
>arrest, advances in CPR have pushed that time to a half-hour or more.
>New techniques promise to even further extend the boundary between life >and death. At the same time, experiences reported by resuscitated people
>sometimes defy what's thought to be possible. They claim to have seen
>and heard things, though activity in their brains appears to have
>stopped. It sounds supernatural, and if their memories are accurate and >their brains really have stopped, it's neurologically inexplicable, at >least with what's now known. Parnia, leader of the Human Consciousness
>Project's AWARE study, which documents after-death experiences in 25
>hospitals across North America and Europe, is studying the phenomenon
>scientifically.
>

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Alberto.

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