On 27 May 2013, at 05:05, spudboy...@aol.com wrote:

Understood, Jason. I became familiar with this digital universe concept, first, through Hans Moravec, in Mind Children. I wonder how possible it is to discover that we are part of an ancestor simulation?


By reasoning, taking the FPI into consideration. We cannot discover this, but evaluate the probability, which might be high indeed. By the FPI, our consciousness relied on all computations (infinity) which is going through you state. In a sense, you are both in the simulations by ancestors (which exist in arithmetic) and all the other simulations, which exist also in arithmetic.

Bruno




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From: meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net>
To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sat, May 25, 2013 10:00 pm
Subject: Re: That the mind works even after the brain ceases to function suggests its ...

            On 5/25/2013 11:03 AM, Jason Resch      wrote:




On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 10:35 AM, &lt;spudboy...@aol.com&gt; wrote:

                Interesting Jason,

My issue with the multi-generated clones created either by the actions of a multiverse or the actions of hypercomputers, my concern is that, its such a waste (in my opinion) that a Jason who belongs to an identical Earth, but humans all have elephant tricks instead of noses. Or a Jason Resch, belonging to a species that has rectangular crystal panels built in their stomachs and backs (see thru). I am shooting for ridiculous incarnations of J. Resch, in order to illustrate the unlikeliness, of this method of producing the actual person- thoughts feelings memories. The memory thing as a blue print, to me, seems, essential, for resurrection. I could be totally wrong, but I am merely trying to simplify this for myself, if nobody else. Thanks, Jason.


          Mitch,


Consider a few points: First, roughly 100 billion humans have ever lived in this history of humans, the life expectancy of humans over most of that time was 10 years, so roughly there have been 1 trillion years worth of human experience. Second, if transhumanism is correct and we transcend our biological limits we could not only live much longer but generate experiences at greatly accelerated rates. It would take the then current population of people (say it is 10 billion) only 100 years to generate the same total amount of experience of all humans going back millions of years. Even if only 10% of the population, spends only 1% of their time simulating/ experiencing alternate lives or histories, it would take a mere 100,000 years for most of "human" experiences to be generated artificially by our descendents. This ignores the acceleration that is possible. Electricity flows through wires about a million times faster than neurotransmitters conduct signals in the brain. This implies that without any miniaturization, human thought could be accelerated by about a factor of a million times, so it could take only a month (rather than 100,000 years) for these accelerated humans spending only 0.1% of their collective time simulating ancestors for the bulk of human experience to be artificially generated. Now consider that such a civilization could live for billions of years. If each post-human experiences a few thousand or a few million ancestor lives, or alternate species, etc., then odds quickly become overwhelming that your current moment of awareness is not explained by that of some biological being on a physical planet but that of some advanced being conducting a simulation on some advanced computational substrate.


          Jason



              -Mitch


                                -----Original Message-----
                  From: Jason Resch &lt;jasonre...@gmail.com&gt;
To: Everything List &lt;everything-list@googlegroups.com &gt;
                  Sent: Thu, May 23, 2013 11:10 am
Subject: Re: That the mind works even after the brain ceases to function suggests its ...





On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 4:57 PM, &lt;spudboy...@aol.com &gt; wrote: So , Jason,by this reasoning, a sufficiently advanced technology, then, in indistinguisable from Resurrection.



If used for such purposes. Even if technology is not used for the explicit purpose of resurrection, say it is only used for exploration purposes, where simulation is applied to explore other possibilities of existence and being, a side effect will be to provide new paths for the consciousness of the simulated beings to follow. It is a bit like the guy who dreamed he was a butterfly. If it was an completely accurate dream (as simulation technology could allow), then the butterfly is given the ability to "ressurect" to become a human. Similarly, advanced "omega point" civilizations or Jupiter brains may choose to explore potentiality for consciousness and thus try to experience the lives of other beings. Such an intelligence, existing in any physical universe that provides infinite energy/ infinite computing power has the ability to experience the life of every other being anywhere in any universe (assuming computationalism). If one of these exists anywhere, the it provides us the potential to wake up as it, just as the butterfly has the potential to wake up as a human. Such a being may even feel compelled to provide a pleasant afterlife given all the suffering that exists in the physical worlds, although this point is more contentious.


I mention this because I have discussed tech resurrection, as, at least, an intellectual phenomenon, over at the Kurzweil forum. There is an enthusiast for technologically based resurrection, on the forum, has produced a moderately, large, website, that presents this concept. Most people will say this in impossible, and who am I to dispute them? But I still find the topic interesting, none the less.



That is interesting to me. What is the website?



My suspicion is that there is some feature of the universe that acts as a substrate for all actions and characteristics and records it all. I am trying to peg it down to the Planck length as sort of a storage cell. The styllus to read-write could be anything from photons to neutrinos, that would write to the planck length. Who knows if it is even plausible, but I sort of like it anyway. I like NDE stuff too, and try to sort the most cogent stories from the least cogent.



Whether or not it is recorded or extractable in this universe is immaterial. If the universe is infinitely large or infinitely varied, we each reappear an infinite number of times. There are a countably infinite number of programs, and for any given level of complexity, there is a finite number of possible programs shorter than some length. Any consciousness we simulate is the consciousness of something that exists somewhere else in the infinitely varied/infinitely large universe, and if the universe is really this big, then someone else far away could simulate you perfectly without having to extract a record of you. Just running Bruno's UDA for a long enough time "ressurects" everyone, we are all contained in that short program.













To which, one is tempted to respond: So what? If there is all this simulation going on, what reason is there to suppose it is being done by being anything like us or that the worlds in which the simulations take place (the "real" ones, if there are any) are anything like this one. You are simply led back to trying to discover what are possible worlds, where "possible" can be anything from "familiar enough I can understand it" to "nomologically possible" to "not containing contradictions".

  Brent


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