On Tuesday, July 16, 2013 4:21:27 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote:
>
>  On 7/16/2013 12:51 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
>  
>
>
> On Monday, July 15, 2013 6:41:28 PM UTC-4, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote: 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 12:32 AM, meekerdb <meek...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>>  On 7/15/2013 2:30 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
>>>  
>>> Would this kind of universality of human sense-making be likely if the 
>>> connections between words, shapes, and feelings were purely computational?
>>>
>>>
>>>  Why not?  Being a broken line vs a differentiable line is a computable 
>>> property.  The difference between "k" sounds and "b" sounds is computable.  
>>> So I'm not sure what you're getting at.  Or are you asking how "k" came to 
>>> be associated with "broken line" or how the written letter "k" was 
>>> associated with the phonetic sound of "k"?  
>>>
>>>  
>>  Right. Almost too easy, which makes me suspicious Craig has some weird 
>> counter play ;-)
>>  
>> Indeed, why not? Rise and fall in values of acoustics + phonetics, shrill 
>> i of kiki vs. roundness of bouba, are mapped to jagged form vs rounder 
>> form. 
>>   
>
> You could just as easily map the acoustics so that kiki appears round and 
> bouba appears jagged. There is nothing implicitly visual about a sound 
> unless an interpreter makes that connection. 
>
>
> But there's something inherently abrupt about how you form "kiki" with 
> your mouth and inherently rounded about how form "bouba".
>
>
Inherent only if you can appreciate the aesthetic experience of having a 
mouth. A machine would have to be told what round is and how it relates 
quantitatively to both optical shapes and audio data. It has no sense of 
round on its own or how it would apply literally to a shape but 
metaphorically to the sound related to that shape.

 If there were, then watching an oscilloscope of a song playing would be 
> the same as hearing it. Since we can make sense of both audio and visual 
> sensations, we can read the commonality between them, but a machine won't 
> make that connection on its own.
>  
>
>>   Spikes vs. curves in values of graphic pattern mirrored by disjunct 
>> vs. conjunct in sound, which you could make visible by frequency response 
>> graph. Spikes vs. curves, odd to even, states of randomness to organization 
>> etc. Full buffet, eat all you can, choice is yours. PGC
>>   
>
> All of those 'vs' and 'to' comparisons or contingent on a sensible 
> interpreter. 
>
>
> Who says a computer can't be a sensible interpreter?
>

If it could, then it would program itself.

Craig
 

>
> Brent
>
>  They imply no intrinsic quantitative equivalence to each other without 
> one. What color is even? What flavor is randomness?
>
> Craig
>
>    
>>
>>   Brent
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